ASA, DAL almost collide in ATL

[ReverseSensing]

Not sure, but turning on the taxi and/or landing lights while in position aren't going to do much to stop a plane approaching you from behind.

And it's directly contrary to the guidance provided in AC 120-74A.

This practice may have had nothing to do with this incident, but one day it will. Who else besides Alaska still has this as SOP?

 

[John Pennekamp]

And it's directly contrary to the guidance provided in AC 120-74A.

This practice may have had nothing to do with this incident, but one day it will. Who else besides Alaska still has this as SOP?

Seems pretty standard in ATL. Everyone seems to do it.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Not sure, but turning on the taxi and/or landing lights while in position aren't going to do much to stop a plane approaching you from behind.

Sure it does. At nighttime, which is when that LAX incident happened I believe. Daytime, not so much!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Sure it does. At nighttime, which is when that LAX incident happened I believe. Daytime, not so much!

The airplane landing on you, approaching from behind, is going to see your taxi light? Which shines forward. How?

 

[CRJCptn]

Not sure, but turning on the taxi and/or landing lights while in position aren't going to do much to stop a plane approaching you from behind.

but maybe strobes will, and that is an ASA SOP. Even though some people may not like it, it is an attention getter!!!!!!!

 

[TOOL CRIB]

The airplane landing on you, approaching from behind, is going to see your taxi light? Which shines forward. How?

Um, it lights up the runway in front of you so the airplane behind you will see the bright spot and wonder why the runway is lit up like that. Kind of like pointing a flashlight forward to see in front of you when you're walking? Big bright spot.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Um, it lights up the runway in front of you so the airplane behind you will see the bright spot and wonder why the runway is lit up like that. Kind of like pointing a flashlight forward to see in front of you when you're walking? Big bright spot.

I love it when the obvious is stated.

 

[Papa Woody]

Um, it lights up the runway in front of you so the airplane behind you will see the bright spot and wonder why the runway is lit up like that. Kind of like pointing a flashlight forward to see in front of you when you're walking? Big bright spot.

Nah....I think it makes the runway numbers appear to self-illuminate, prompting the copilot to say "kewl....glow-in-the-dark paint!"

 

[atl pilot]

As a controller, I actually appreciate the value of the old lights on, lights off practice. Many of us (espicially the oldtimers) watch (even during the day) what you have illuminated as you approach a runway with a hold short instruction. If you're all lit up, and have been told to hold short, I am going to say something....again...just to be sure.

I will say in this case, that given the particulars, that lights being off or on was proabbly not a contributing factor. However, just maybe, it will prevent the next one!! Just a thought.

BTW, today was really nice. I would like to thank everyone for the improved hold short readbacks! I do not think I had to ask anyone (except maybe 2 total out of my whole day - which is a true record) to read back their hold short instructions correctly! Almost 100% gave me correct and complete readbacks almost all day! Please keep up the great work. It makes my job infinitely easier, and will keep you a whole lot safer!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Um, it lights up the runway in front of you so the airplane behind you will see the bright spot and wonder why the runway is lit up like that. Kind of like pointing a flashlight forward to see in front of you when you're walking? Big bright spot.

Good point. I'll give you that one... hadn't thought of it. But during the day... not so much. Yet many still do it.

 

[John Pennekamp]

As a controller, I actually appreciate the value of the old lights on, lights off practice. Many of us (espicially the oldtimers) watch (even during the day) what you have illuminated as you approach a runway with a hold short instruction. If you're all lit up, and have been told to hold short, I am going to say something....again...just to be sure.

I will say in this case, that given the particulars, that lights being off or on was proabbly not a contributing factor. However, just maybe, it will prevent the next one!! Just a thought.

BTW, today was really nice. I would like to thank everyone for the improved hold short readbacks! I do not think I had to ask anyone (except maybe 2 total out of my whole day - which is a true record) to read back their hold short instructions correctly! Almost 100% gave me correct and complete readbacks almost all day! Please keep up the great work. It makes my job infinitely easier, and will keep you a whole lot safer!!

I was wondering if y'all have gotten any guidance yet from this incident. For example, I figured they'd put the kibosh on the mass crossing of the inboards preceded with "all aircraft respond with callsigns only".

Have you guys in the tower heard any new procedures yet to safeguard this happening again?

 

[JoeMerchant]

From a good source, the crew read back "cross 27R" and the tower did not catch it..... Now NATCA is using this for their own purposes in negotiations..... Way to "stick together".....

IF this is true, ALPA should retaliate in the media.....

The way the quality of ATL ATC has deteriorated in the past few years, they really shouldn't be throwing stones......

 

[John Pennekamp]

From a good source, the crew read back "cross 27R" and the tower did not catch it..... Now NATCA is using this for their own purposes in negotiations..... Way to "stick together".....

IF this is true, ALPA should retaliate in the media.....

The way the quality of ATL ATC has deteriorated in the past few years, they really shouldn't be throwing stones......

ALPA shouldn't retaliate. Better to take the high road then to stoop to NATCA's gutter dwelling "play the media for personal gain" approach.

Agreed about the quality of ATL ATC. I really miss the days of Buzz and Smiley where no matter how busy it was nobody lost their cool.

Nowadays, somebody says "cleared to land" without mentioning the name of the runway, and everybody freaks out.

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA shouldn't retaliate. Better to take the high road then to stoop to NATCA's gutter dwelling "play the media for personal gain" approach.

IF it is true, the other side of the story should be put out in the media...... NATCA decided they want to debate this in the media..... let's play their game.....

Come on JP..... don't sound like a Herndon politician now.......

 

[atl pilot]

From a good source, the crew read back "cross 27R" and the tower did not catch it..... Now NATCA is using this for their own purposes in negotiations..... Way to "stick together".....

IF this is true, ALPA should retaliate in the media.....

The way the quality of ATL ATC has deteriorated in the past few years, they really shouldn't be throwing stones......

Joe,
Your good source is wrong. However, I agree with you that NATCA was out of line for making any comment at all.