Just Shredded The Union Card

[CA1900]

Status quo? A union is anything but status quo. The pot is always being stirred and once every four or five years everybody in the company needs to go through the never-ending and nervewracking nightmare called "negotiations".

Or, in the case of NetJets, the parties met with a common interest and hammered out an agreement without the "nightmare" you describe.

Status quo at a non-union carrier means a stable and profitable career without the nightmare of negotiations or the threat of a job loss due to radical union intervention.

At my last non-union carrier, it meant a compensation package that stagnated for fifteen years, healthcare contributions that went up repeatedly, domiciles that closed, furloughs, downgrades, and a pillaging of the ESOP that's still in court. All before 9/11, and all without a pesky union to look out for the rights of the pilots.

I'll take a union carrier any day of the week.

 

[Bandit60]

I just question the motives of the union leaders who sent these cards out. Are they really there to help you? Or are they there to line there pockets with your dues? What exactly do they gain other than more power and money by having CS join a union?

 

[ultrarunner]

A unions worst nightmare is being placed on the 'do not call list'. But that day could happen.

IMHO, If an educated group (or an idiot group for that that matter) wants to consider specific representation, they have than right. For that labor group to have the right to interject is NOT right.

If we want ya, we'll call. Hopefully it will come to that one day, and everyone can make their own choice.

However, for a labor group to have some buddha-given right to just show up and force a vote seems to go against a basic right to choice.

 

[fischman]

I just question the motives of the union leaders who sent these cards out. Are they really there to help you? Or are they there to line there pockets with your dues? What exactly do they gain other than more power and money by having CS join a union?

As a member of that Union, I will tell you that they genuinly care about pilots. ALL pilots. (Yes, that includes B19, Bogie, and Family Guy)

BTW, We are doing just fine on dues. Our new contract meant more money for everybody, which means more dues for the Union. It is worth every nickel too.

 

[SpaceBall 1]

You made a huge mistake shredding that paper my friend. Do you know the environmental impact of wasting paper?! I used my mailing to make a grocery list, plan the dimensions of a wood working project, make a rough draft of my new year's resolutions, and finally make another grocery list. You need to do penance to the Green Gods and be more careful in the future!

I used mine to wipe my a$$ and then mailed it in. Now thats multi-tasking! :laugh: I just couldn't resist!

 

[dime line]

I just question the motives of the union leaders who sent these cards out. Are they really there to help you? Or are they there to line there pockets with your dues? What exactly do they gain other than more power and money by having CS join a union?

Who do you think your talking about? The guys who mailed out the cards are your coworkers. How do you think they plan on lining their own pockets?
They want fairness which isnt probably happening at your company. I know its not at FLOPS
I will gladly pay my dues, even for the little comforts that I have now.

 

[justmeinmsp]

Wow,

Maybe the reason some people (myself included) are resistant to 1108 is the way it is being presented to us at the other fractionals. There seem to be about 10 people at each company that post 95% of the time on here and they feel it is their right to DECREE that every fractional MUST join 1108. If you have an opinion other than theirs, they call you a management pilot, a scab, or tell you they can't wait until they buy you and staple you to the bottom of their list. Wow, nice way to try to intimidate fellow pilots into doing what you say.

It seems that an employee group probably needs a union when management is treating you so poorly that there is no other choice. From my time spent in FBO crew lounges it seems that the only pilots that complain more than the NetJet guys/gals are the Flight Option guys/gals. Hmmmm, what do those two have in common.

It seems that the union promoters all want us to join because everyone else is doing it and by us joining 1108 we will all instantly get NetJet pay and work rules. When I was hired at FlexJet NetJets had a contract under 1108 and they were one of the lower paid fractionals. Why do these people believe that we will get what NetJets has now with our first contract?

They also tell me how bad management is treating me. Wait, isn't that a decision I am allowed to make, or do I need to relinquish all thought to the 1108 since they apparently know better than us. I do appreciate your interest in bettering all the other fractionals, and when I feel that we need that here I will probably come asking.

But please, until then stop sending me union cards that I didn't request and propaganda to convince me that 1108 is the only choice and that I would be an idiot not to give my first born child to join. Oh, and thank you for the orange FlexJet(s) pen that your dues paid for.


TWA 2 ASA FO

I don't think that is what we are saying. It won't happen with the first contract. But since organizing they have passed Flex by ALOT. That gap will continue to grow unless 1) Management steps up or 2) we organize and force them. Until we organize all we can do is say "thank you sir may I have another".

 

[Bandit60]

As a member of that Union, I will tell you that they genuinly care about pilots. ALL pilots. (Yes, that includes B19, Bogie, and Family Guy)

BTW, We are doing just fine on dues. Our new contract meant more money for everybody, which means more dues for the Union. It is worth every nickel too.

I am referring to union leaders. Not union employees of the company. I grew up in a union town and saw how the union leaders of the national level made alot of money off the hard working person. In most of the situtions that i saw (teamsters) the employees lost so much money during the strike that they never did make back what they lost, but the leaders would fly in on private chaters with tie and coats and then go into the restroom and change into their jeans to go to the picket lines. This statement is not debateble since i saw it with my own eyes.

Again I am referring only to the head of the union not your local leader.

I would bet the national leaders could care less about the pilots..they just want to line their pocket and become more powerful. Someone tell me what motive other than power and greed do these leaders have.

And dont give me the crap that they care! Please!
If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[justmeinmsp]

And what would you say about upper management? I guess they are here for us pilots.

 

[Bandit60]

Who do you think your talking about? The guys who mailed out the cards are your coworkers. How do you think they plan on lining their own pockets?
They want fairness which isnt probably happening at your company. I know its not at FLOPS
I will gladly pay my dues, even for the little comforts that I have now.

Im sorry I didnt know that CS had due paying members of the union. I thought someone from the union had given these CS guys the cards to send out. I am referring to union leaders and not employees.

I am asking a real question..are the guys who sent in out part of the union? or are they just the middle man at this time.

 

[Bandit60]

And what would you say about upper management? I guess they are here for us pilots.

No. the management has one goal. Make Money. That is what a business is supposed to do. I am not going to defend them..Power and Greed is powerful thing.

I guess my point really is that I am so tired of hearing these union leaders say they actually care about you. That is such BS.

 

[gunfyter]

The Union leaders supplying the cards are probably Netjets pilots who volunteer their own time without any compensation for union activity.

They want to help pilots at other fracs.

Pilots are my favorite kind of people. When we see other pilots @ Airport terminals or meet other pilots at events in our lives... we have a bond... a connection.

We don't want other pilots pressured to violate Rest and Duty regulations with floating rest policies. Pressured to fly over 14 hr duty days etc.. Fly fatigued because they are afraid to get fired. Fly broke airplanes.

We want all pilots to be properly compensated for the skill, experience, education and responsibility it takes to move people in multimillion dollar jets in the very demanding environment of fractional aviation.

 

[dime line]

I am referring to union leaders. Not union employees of the company. I grew up in a union town (so not an fractional avviation union) and saw how the union leaders of the national level made alot of money off the hard working person.(Uh kinda like the CEOs and their high placed friends) In most of the situtions that i saw (teamsters) the employees lost so much money during the strike that they never did make back what they lost, but the leaders would fly in on private chaters(Id love to see the MEC at FLOPS(orTeamsters Leaders for that matter) fly on a company jet) with tie and coats and then go into the restroom and change into their jeans to go to the picket lines. This statement is not debateble since i saw it with my own eyes. (Will not debate this, you probably did see this)

Again I am referring only to the head of the union not your local leader.

Uh, kinda like our CEO and the likes care about you

I would bet the national leaders could care less about the pilots..

Uh, Kinda like our CEOs and the likes, care about you

they just want to line their pocket and become more powerful.

Someone tell me what motive other than power and greed do these leaders have.

So fill us in on the motive of our over-paid CEOs

And dont give me the crap that they care! (I wont, because they (CEOs) don't) .Please!
If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

Ok fine, If you believe the crap you spew out,then I have a planet to sell you (real cheap)

 

[dime line]

No. the management has one goal. Make Money. That is what a business is supposed to do. I am not going to defend them..Power and Greed is powerful thing.

I guess my point really is that I am so tired of hearing these union leaders say they actually care about you. That is such BS.

And I sick and tired of hearing that I'm a "Team Member" at FLOPS. I'm so not part of the team, and FLOPS management knows it. So its such BS

 

[dime line]

Im sorry I didnt know that CS had due paying members of the union. I thought someone from the union had given these CS guys the cards to send out. I am referring to union leaders and not employees.

I am asking a real question..are the guys who sent in out part of the union? or are they just the middle man at this time.

Nothing more than pissed of CS pilots (and none should be paying dues, yet). That have to hide behind fake names cause they know the likes like you will probably turn them in

 

[xpdriver]

What nerve the Union (1108) has sending the CitationShares pilots unsolicited cards in the mail. I just gave mine a quick trip through the shredder. They have gonads the size of elephants. Say NO to the union.

Great... enjoy your low wages,no growth and forced extended days Sounds like a good decision to me.


You must be MGMT!!!

 

[fischman]

I am referring to union leaders. Not union employees of the company. I grew up in a union town and saw how the union leaders of the national level made alot of money off the hard working person. In most of the situtions that i saw (teamsters) the employees lost so much money during the strike that they never did make back what they lost, but the leaders would fly in on private chaters with tie and coats and then go into the restroom and change into their jeans to go to the picket lines. This statement is not debateble since i saw it with my own eyes. Hmmm... Stay tuned.

Again I am referring only to the head of the union not your local leader. I'm glad to hear that. I have met Bill Olsen on several occasions and will tell you that he suprises the hell out of me. He is intelligent, well spoken, graceful in writing, and genuinly CARES about pilots. That is where I would say we are different from any other union you have encountered in the past. There is devotion beyond belief.

I would bet the national leaders could care less about the pilots..they just want to line their pocket and become more powerful. Someone tell me what motive other than power and greed do these leaders have. On the national level? I'm not sure I could debate you on that.

And dont give me the crap that they care! Please!
If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. I honestly believe that the local 1108 leaders DO care about me/us. If you can't see this, then I will say that you have not done your research on them and are ignorant of the situation. So how much for that bridge?

.....

 

[pilotyip]

Growth?

Great... enjoy your low wages,no growth and forced extended days Sounds like a good decision to me.


You must be MGMT!!!

How does 1108 lead to growth? Please no flame intented, how does a union lead to growth? My expereince with marginal privately held union airlines is they go out of business. TransAmerican ALPA 1984 , Zantop Tempsters 747, 1997

 

[Stinkbug]

Great... enjoy your low wages,no growth and forced extended days Sounds like a good decision to me.


You must be MGMT!!!

What are you talking about? Low wages? Maybe not top of the industry but I don't think anyone would argue that we're paid pretty well. Growth has been slow, but fairly steady for years. Forced extended days do happen occasionally, but we're almost always on the first flight home the next morning, and we get overtime for it, same as you.

 

[netjetwife]

How does 1108 lead to growth? Please no flame intented, how does a union lead to growth? ....

It's very simple: a good contract leads to motivated employees who are then more productive. Satisfied pilots are the best form of advertising a frac company can have-- for new clients and new employees. It's no coincidence that most of the pilots wishing to enter the industry are first applying to NJA. They are also leaving other fracs to go to NJ. That all adds up to solid growth.

Gunfyter, Fisch, and Dime....good posts, guys!

Let the new year bring new methods. If the old way isn't working give it the boot....NJW