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Colgan and Skywest pilots that voted no

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Good luck with that!

Why do we work 40 hour work weeks and two day weekends? Where did that come from..?


I have had good luck with that. The company I work for doesn't have a union.

The FARs keep us plenty safe, along with some common sense and the balls to tell the company no when you have to.

Our upgrades are performance based not seniority based. So I've moved up very quickly. I also make more than alot of regional captains.

Plus I'm home just about every night of the week, and I get weekends and holidays off.

So how's that union thing working out for you?


BTW you'll never get around working the weekend at the airlines, simple fact of life people want to fly on the weekend. If you want a 40 hr a week, weekends off, union job, go tighten lug nuts at Ford.
 
We have a union, and I dont work weekends.
 
The FARs keep us plenty safe, along with a little common sense...

One of the dumbest quotes ever posted on FlightInfo.

What percentage of airline accidents do you think have been the result of an FAR violation? A "little" common sense won't take you that far. Safety is the result of a company committed to it which comes before FAR oversight and you entering the aircraft. I hope you're smarter than that quote makes you seem.
 
Yes, I overlooked that quote by RedGuy. He is home every night because he lives in fantasy land.
 
One of the dumbest quotes ever posted on FlightInfo.

What percentage of airline accidents do you think have been the result of an FAR violation? A "little" common sense won't take you that far. Safety is the result of a company committed to it which comes before FAR oversight and you entering the aircraft. I hope you're smarter than that quote makes you seem.

I'm sure that alot of accidents are the result of a FAR violation, which is exactly my point. Don't violate the FARs and you'll be safe. I don't see how you figure common sense won't get you far. If somethings not right, don't do it. How much simpler can it get.

You are right that safety is also a result of a company that wants it, but the company has just as much riding on the line to keep it self safe from a economic stand point since passengers don't want to fly on an unsafe airline. I think it has alot less to do with what the union tells them. There's ALOT of companies out there that aren't union and are still very safe. Take for example USA Jet.


BTW I don't live in Fantasy land, it's called 135.
 
If somethings not right, don't do it. How much simpler can it get.

The second dumbest quote ever posted on flightinfo.


Then:

don't fly fatigued
ground the airplane for every non-deferrable light bulb
dont' go 1 pound of gas under release

and so on . . .
 
The second dumbest quote ever posted on flightinfo.


Then:

don't fly fatigued
ground the airplane for every non-deferrable light bulb
dont' go 1 pound of gas under release

and so on . . .
these are things you do anyway...right? or do you pick and chose things NOTto fly with based on whats convenient for you at the time? Is that how alpa keeps you safe from the boogie man?

I guess yours is the third dumbest....;)
 
RedGuy said:
You are right that safety is also a result of a company that wants it, but the company has just as much riding on the line to keep it self safe from a economic stand point since passengers don't want to fly on an unsafe airline. I think it has alot less to do with what the union tells them. There's ALOT of companies out there that aren't union and are still very safe. Take for example USA Jet.

There are two problems with your theory:

1) Yes, the company should have as much of an interest in it as you, but as you know, the $$$ rules. You need someone who works for your side.

2) You equate an company that is safe(no accidents) with a company that is safety-minded. There are many companies who have good safety records and yet would score highly on risk analysis. Many companies succeed in spite of themselves, not because of what they do.

these are things you do anyway...right? or do you pick and chose things NOTto fly with based on whats convenient for you at the time? Is that how alpa keeps you safe from the boogie man?


ALPA won't keep you safe; only you can do that. However, ALPA has had a major hand in creating and promoting many of the major safety advancements in the aviation industry. The Central Air Safety Committee provides a day-to-day oversight that can only be provided in-house. Some companies actually have effective internal auditing, but more often than not, the data will directly from the line.
 
No union on board

Skywest pilots benefit from union negotiated contracts and other benefits without contributing to the cause. You think they would have those pay and work rules if management wasn't just trying to keep them from getting a union on board? All of the things in their "employee handbook" are things that were copied from union negotiated contracts. If it weren't for unions, then Skywest pilots would be paid far less and treated much worse. Some of us are tired of them freeloading off of us. It's about time that they joined in the fight and contributed to the cause.

Considering that historically, unions have bid themselves out of the marketplace repeatedly. (Textiles, steel, auto, and now airlines) why WOULDN'T management want to keep an AFL-CIO union out?

I would question their management ability if they didn't.

The problem with unions is not the concept of unionism per se, its their refusal to confront the reality of free market supply and demand forces. This head in the sand mentality has cost more union jobs than anything management has screwed up. This in the form of bankruptcies due to the inability of their companies to compete regarding labor costs and, (when an opening in the free market allows a newcomer to come in and undercut the legacies,) the subsequent inevitable bankruptcies, contract gutting and furloughs. (If you think it won't happen with all current airlines unionized and a national seniority list you are delusional as long as the airlines remain deregulated).

And the evidence of a lack of critical thinking is everywhere. When management claims they can't afford the requested contract improvements, what do the ALPA radicals do? Implement a work slowdown, (never mind it violates the ALPA Code of Conduct) thus increasing costs, and reducing profits thus validating management's argument. How intelligent is that? You would think that ALPA would do everything they could to make the company more efficient and maximize profitability so there would be more money available for increasing compensation - but NO - ALPA can't possibly be seen as cooperating with management.

And when the airlines finally become profitable again what does the union do? They (as John Prater is so fond of saying) take it back, leaving their companies with no operating reserves, totally ignoring the inevitable loss cycle about 7 years in the future. The result? The whole cycle of non-competitiveness, bankruptcy, contract gutting, and mass furloughs happens all over again. ALPA never learns.

I have no problems with having a union on the property but after watching this type of schizophrenic reasoning for 13 years by ALPA, I have had it with ALPA. On the other hand I now have enough seniority that if my company goes bankrupt, the furloughs won't likely reach me or signficantly affect my quality of life so John Prater - Go for it!
 
Unions haven't bid themselves out of anything. The industries that you mentioned have all been outsourced to foreign countries. Even without unions, our workers in this country could never work for the low pay and under the horrible working conditions that the workers in China, Mexico, and other countries do. If the unions had never existed, these industries would still have outsourced their labor to maximize their profits. What killed the workers in these industries wasn't their unions, it was anti-labor politicians that have allowed the continual trade agreements and outsourcing of labor with countries that have no standards for human rights. The typical far-right attack on unions by using the textile and other industries as an example is nothing but a poorly conceived red herring.
 
If you want anyone to listen to you and have an honest debate, then you might want to stop with tired old "ALPO" misspelling bullsh&^. At least be original. You just sound like a d0uche.
ALPO, ALPO, ALPO!
 
Formula -

I've upgraded. I make over six figures with Skywest and voteing no was a no brainer.

<Cough, cough...> BS!

So you JUST upgraded......
We'll just call you a 5 year captain. At $65/hr, that's $60k. Throw in som OT and perdiem, you MIGHT be at $75....
But then again, pilots and math in public.......

737
 
American Unions are the reason so many corporations are outsourcing to the third world.

While they DID serve a purpose, they have been abused.

Today, it is a very valid question as to whether or not any union has your best interests at heart.

If a non-union airline was willing to hire me, and actually paid me something I could live on, and feed my family on, I would go in a heartbeat.

And I think that is the feeling of most people here who are at the non-union airlines.

If being an airline pilot used to be something special, and you had unions all these years fighting for you, then why in the hell is being an airline pilot not special any more? And why in the hell is the pay so low that pilots have to come home and deliver pizza or flip burgers and McDonald's on their days off? The unions didn't fight all that hard, apparently. So none of you owes any allegiance to the unions! Period. And I sure as hell don't, if I get hired on somewhere, union, or non-union.

And if I do get a job, I want to fly for God's sake, not walk a picket line.
 

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