Skybus

[Shrek]

Ahhhh, career advice from the Gohet whore...

Kinda like going to church in a crackhouse. The only "kneeling" you will do is for the PIPE !!

 

[Skank]

I'll bet its pretty precious....Shouldn't you guys be out there trying to F up the FARs a little more by doing transcon turns!

2004... 3 years after the JB cheap pay concept!

Your partners in crime towards the cheap pay concept....They stayed out of our back yards by going into places like BHM, BUR and PVD
You guys expanded on the backs of the legacy airlines. Admit it. Even someone with limited knowledge such as yourself can see it.



Here's what I find ironic.....
JB comes in, new guy in town, getting sweet deals from the NY port authority on gates, and an even sweeter deal from Airbus.
Charges dirt cheap fares and drives the legacies to compete, driving a lot of carriers into BK.
DL goes into BK thanks to JB and SW and the likes, restructures, comes out charges cheaper fares, and its called preadatory pricing. Welcome to the party pal. You guys created it!
I see you made your first profit in 2 years congrats. How long will it last. I guess you guys don't walk on water with your cheap labor costs. Those airbuses starting to cost some $$ now?
Maybe its time for JB to take some pay concessions. It appears you might be too expensive for your own good!
737

You're bloody amazing! We drove Delta into BK? I don't think you are thinking straight right now (maybe it's a permanent condition).

 

[HA25]

This whole - I am gunna get mine and screw everybody else crap has to STOP.........it is pathetic-selfish and in the long run detrimental to wages and QOL for every pilot out there.

minimum of 12 days off, with 15 typical and home every night is really going to hurt the profession isn't it?

More over, the typical airline pilot has about 350-400 TAFB a month, yes folks.. that's time away from YOUR home and AT WORK.. They typical Skybus pilot will have less than 1/2 that... so in effect his hourly rate when at work is more than yours..

Twisted logic, or fact.. you decide, but for me it's self evident. Not all things are as they seem... $90K/yr for 15 days work and home every night.. I don't really think that's so bad when I also get to share in the profits with stock and profit sharing to boot..

You should be wishing Skybus makes it, as that might bring something new to your contract that is long over due, ownership and profit sharing that is meaningful. CEO's are paid well because they get Options and Profit share.. not just a paycheck like some working stiff!

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I'll bet its pretty precious....Shouldn't you guys be out there trying to F up the FARs a little more by doing transcon turns!

2004... 3 years after the JB cheap pay concept!

Your partners in crime towards the cheap pay concept....They stayed out of our back yards by going into places like BHM, BUR and PVD
You guys expanded on the backs of the legacy airlines. Admit it. Even someone with limited knowledge such as yourself can see it.



Here's what I find ironic.....
JB comes in, new guy in town, getting sweet deals from the NY port authority on gates, and an even sweeter deal from Airbus.
Charges dirt cheap fares and drives the legacies to compete, driving a lot of carriers into BK.
DL goes into BK thanks to JB and SW and the likes, restructures, comes out charges cheaper fares, and its called preadatory pricing. Welcome to the party pal. You guys created it!
I see you made your first profit in 2 years congrats. How long will it last. I guess you guys don't walk on water with your cheap labor costs. Those airbuses starting to cost some $$ now?
Maybe its time for JB to take some pay concessions. It appears you might be too expensive for your own good!
737

And somehow we drove Northwest Airlines into bankruptcy too. Lets see here, we compete with them on how many routes? Ah, ZERO!!! UAL went bankrupt with USAir immediately after 9/11. We were what, one year old then? Give me a break 737. The legacies went bankrupt to eliminate their pensions and renegotiate debt. That's the truth. All of them had plenty of cash available to continue to survive, but for USAir-- who hinged their survival on a merger with UAL that didn't happen with no backup plan in place...

They went bankrupt because of piss poor management, simply put. And by the way, they're all rich now at your expense!!! Because they did a great job getting y'all out of bankruptcy, trimming all the costs off your back with benefit and wage cuts-- good on them, bad on you for not fighting them with your "unions"

 

[HA25]

They went bankrupt because of piss poor management, simply put. And by the way, they're all rich now at your expense!!! Because they did a great job getting y'all out of bankruptcy, trimming all the costs off your back with benefit and wage cuts-- good on them, bad on you for not fighting them with your "unions"

ah... someone finally gets it. But don't waste you're time, it's a lot easier to blame Skybus.. and apparently the fashionable thing to do these days.

 

[skiandsurf]

More over, the typical airline pilot has about 350-400 TAFB a month, yes folks.. that's time away from YOUR home and AT WORK.. They typical Skybus pilot will have less than 1/2 that... so in effect his hourly rate when at work is more than yours..

The typical pilot drives to work 3 or 4 times a month and gets a good nights sleep in a hotel. The average Skybus pilot drives to work 15 times a month and sleeps in a crash pad with 8 other guys. Essentially doing the same 4 or 6 days away from home, but having to pay for his own place to sleep. No thanks.

 

[ualdriver]

And somehow we drove Northwest Airlines into bankruptcy too. Lets see here, we compete with them on how many routes? Ah, ZERO!!! UAL went bankrupt with USAir immediately after 9/11. We were what, one year old then? Give me a break 737. The legacies went bankrupt to eliminate their pensions and renegotiate debt. That's the truth. All of them had plenty of cash available to continue to survive, but for USAir-- who hinged their survival on a merger with UAL that didn't happen with no backup plan in place...

They went bankrupt because of piss poor management, simply put. And by the way, they're all rich now at your expense!!! Because they did a great job getting y'all out of bankruptcy, trimming all the costs off your back with benefit and wage cuts-- good on them, bad on you for not fighting them with your "unions"

I read threads like these and try to stay out, but you guys JUST DON'T HAVE A CLUE. And I don't know what it is with the JetBlue guys in particular, but they seem to be particularly defensive about the perception of any damage they did to the industry in the early 00's. But damage they did do.

Guys, it wasn't JUST JetBlue that trashed wages, work rules and retirements for the legacies. It wasn't JUST Airtran that trashed wages, work rules and retirement for the legacies. It wasn't JUST Frontier that trashed wages, work rules and retirement for the legacies. It wasn't just Vanguard, Western Pacific, (insert failed LCC here)....... IT WAS ALL OF YOU PUT TOGETHER!!!! The LCC's of the late 90's and early 00's all MASSIVELY undercut the wages, work rules, and retirements of the legacies at the time and used that labor advantage to undercut our fares on just about every single route that we flew. Since labor at the time was EVERY legacy's highest cost, and airlines operate at very narrow margins in the first place, it is very easy for ANY airline, even today, to use discount airline pilot labor to undercut ANY established carrier and cause them to slowly bleed until they are no more. That's EXACTLY what these LCC's did to the legacies in the late 90's and early 00's when these LCC's reached critical mass.

They went bankrupt because of piss poor management? Are you kidding me? Piss poor management that couldn't compete with the JetBlue's of the world with their 100/hr., cabin cleaning Airbus Captains? The best management in the world can't get around a group of pilots willing to massively undercut the going pay rates to gain a competitive advantage. If Virgin uses its discount airline pilot labor to undercut your transcon routes, will it be piss poor management at JetBlue that causes JetBlue to bleed? Or perhaps another group of pilots that took a page right out of YOUR playbook that caused you to bleed?

And I'll tell you what, Blue. You guys have done NOTHING to help this industry. NOTHING. You guys haven't seen a pay rate that's "too low" for your standards. You guys pioneered $100/hr. Airbus Captains with your "horrible 100." You guys pioneered with your cabin cleaning pilots. You guys pioneered with your $80/hr. 100 seat 737/DC9 Captains. God help us and our widebody rates if you ever get anything bigger than an A320. And it doesn't end there. Those FAR's- too restrictive for your tastes. Let's wire up our pilots like test rats, not tell our passengers that we're conducting "test flights," and get the ball rolling on 8 hr.+++ duty days. What are you guys doing about issues like cabotage, that might get crammed down our throat and massively damage pilot wages in the future? NOTHING.

And the worst thing about JetBlue nowadays? The guys at Airtran, Frontier, SWA, "get it" now. They seem to finally understand the damage that a bunch of clueless pilots undercutting the going airline pilot wage and compensation package by 50% or more can do. They're actually trying to pick and hold wages up. Look no further than the Airtran guys and their tremendous efforts to raise narrowbody wages to higher levels.

And when airlines like Airtran, SWA, and the legacies DO get their wages up to more reasonable levels over the next few years, what can we expect from the JetBlue guys to raise the bar? Do you know what I expect? NOTHING. I expect the JetBlue guys to continue to use their cabin cleaning, discount airline pilot wages, along with the likes of Virgin, Skybus, and whatever new-and-improved LCC that comes along to massively undercut us all again. You pilot group doesn't have the cajones to do anything but that.

I keep hearing from you JetBlue guys how all us legacy guys "failed" by not standing up to our respective managements, yet what do we see from the JetBlue guys? Any cajones over there? Not that I've seen. You guys are the ones that don't have the "cajones" to stand up to your management. You haven't done it once in your entire existence. Why don't you show us hapless legacy guys how a group of JetBlue pilots get the job done instead of folding like blue lawn chairs with the issues from paragraph 3 above. Organize yourselves and get your narrowbody wages up to Airtran's + 1%. I won't hold my breath.

No need to respond. Just keep doing what you guys do best- undercutting and diverting blame. It's all "bad management." Oh yeah, don't forget it's ALPA's fault, too.

 

[HA25]

The typical pilot drives to work 3 or 4 times a month and gets a good nights sleep in a hotel. The average Skybus pilot drives to work 15 times a month and sleeps in a crash pad with 8 other guys. Essentially doing the same 4 or 6 days away from home, but having to pay for his own place to sleep. No thanks.

Yes, some commute and are waiting to see what other bases open before settling on a place to live, but in the end if someone choses to commute all his career, that's HIS fault. My best friend is a UAL A320 FO in his 3rd year seniority (recalled last year) and he also has to commute, first to IAD and cover 3 different airports, now to Chicago, and if he's lucky soon to LA.. all of which require him to crashpad.

Difference is at Skybus, I can chose to be home every night if I move, with him he's married to his suitcase..

Next..

 

[HA25]

UAL Driver valid points, but it's now 2007 and we've moved past these hard times. UAL has 5 Billion in cash and making hand over fist on your backs because YOUR union voted deep paycuts in. If/When you stop blaming everyone else for your poor pay and take it back, you'll have my respect, until then you're just part of the problem because YOU voted in those cuts and you set that president for a "Legacy" carrier.. so what else do you expect a start up selling $100 tickets to pay their pilots?..

the difference between you and a startup A320 pilot is you've had 80+ years of history to get it right, and contract after contact improvement... the start up is just that.. a start up and has to work to get to where you are, and it's a long road filled with land mines.

UAL charges a lot more money for a ticket than LLC Du Jour, so it would follow that the UAL pilot should make more... oddly he's making a lot less than Southwest, and about the same as Jetblue. So I would argue since Jet Blue doesn't have the same profits as UAL, you're getting the short end of the stick from your managers not Jetblue.

It's always easy to point and blame than take responsibly.

Sure I can go back to American next year sometime and try to get back that 30% only to have it taken away over the next 30 years of my career over and over, or I can try something different.. get stocks and profit sharing in my airline so that when the CEO does well, so do I.

 

[PCL_128]

Dang, that was a great post UALdriver. Too bad that the nitwits thinking of going to Skybus just don't get it, no matter how well you've explained it.

 

[HA25]

Dang, that was a great post UALdriver. Too bad that the nitwits thinking of going to Skybus just don't get it, no matter how well you've explained it.

this from the guy who paid to fly a 1900...

oh, I give up! Uncle.. Skybus sucks, and working for $29/hr at CAL with no Medical rules!

 

[skiandsurf]

this from the guy who paid to fly a 1900...

oh, I give up! Uncle.. Skybus sucks, and working for $29/hr at CAL with no Medical rules!

We all agree that first year pay and benefit suck (at all airlines), but you have to look beyond that. Which job (CAL vs SkyBus) has better long term potential?

 

[Ezralite]

oh, I give up! Uncle.. Skybus sucks, and working for $29/hr at CAL with no Medical rules!

Gosh, and I thought it worked out for me. I guess holding 737 captain after two years and making $140/hr wasn't the way to go. I suppose I could have mortgaged my future and sold my dignity for a cheesy SkyBust uniform.

 

[HA25]

We all agree that first year pay and benefit suck (at all airlines), but you have to look beyond that. Which job (CAL vs SkyBus) has better long term potential?

Well, let's see.. I could go to CAL assuming I'm hired, and be #5000 out of 5000, be without health insurance for 6 months, have to live in one of their armpit hubs to have any QOL such as IAH or EWR, live out of a suitcase for the rest of my life half for half of the month and upgrade in God knows how long and possibly get merged and furloughed in the process.. and possibly retire from CAL in 30 years since of the several Legacy airlines they're the closest thing to a responsive and dynamic airline..

...OR I can be #75 or so out of 1200+ in the inside 5 years, and be home every night, make $90K average on 15 days of work for 150 hours of duty a month (that's time away from base which is how I see my time being compensated) and $400K in stocks in the next 4 years with millions on the table over 30.

hmm... Ok, I'll take Skybus.

 

[redbook]

Well, let's see.. I could go to CAL assuming I'm hired, and be #5000 out of 5000, be without health insurance for 6 months, have to live in one of their armpit hubs to have any QOL such as IAH or EWR, live out of a suitcase for the rest of my life half for half of the month and upgrade in God knows how long and possibly get merged and furloughed in the process.. and possibly retire from CAL in 30 years since of the several Legacy airlines they're the closest thing to a responsive and dynamic airline..

...OR I can be #75 or so out of 1200+ in the inside 5 years, and be home every night, make $90K average on 15 days of work for 150 hours of duty a month (that's time away from base which is how I see my time being compensated) and $400K in stocks in the next 4 years with millions on the table over 30.

hmm... Ok, I'll take Skybus.

So you are posting fantasies/wishful thinking on this board too? Why don't you just tell us about the winning lottery ticket?

If everybody thought that the startup carrier that hired them would automatically grant them millions and thousands of pilots on a list behind them....it would be easy to sell a lot of bridges.