Skybus

[HA25]

Big deal...like half the regionals out there dont use the door stairs to board? Look at CLT. Over 3/4 of the E gates are outside boarding. I bet that pax total per day outdoes the per day outside boarding total in CMH.

Price will win. Skybus will stay around for a long time and has a chance to be big. Why?

1. They have the funding. (More than Jetblue when they started, and more than almost any startup airline.)

2. They have the pilots. (Why not work for 30k a year when you can be flying an Airbus?!!)

3. They have the pax. (Heard the loads are 85%...higher westbound.) This is the first player flying multiple vacation/business destination west coast flights from CMH and the people are jumping on it. They will deal with the little things to save a buck. Its the market we are in. Whether we as pilots like it or not, the management runs the ship and they are playing to the demand.

4. A business plan can and will change. (Give it time...they can make connections work when they get some of those new ((65 on order)) A-319's, a little time to build experience in this whole airline thing, and growth to support it. This is a startup, and it will take time for things to materialize into a full fledged "airline".

Summary: Whether we like it or not, Skybus has a model that is and will continue to work (for management.) They have cheap fares, destinations that people in central Ohio will want to get out of come January and costs that they can manage.

It will take the first contract of an airline to be signed that recovers the losses of 9/11 before anyone sees relief. At that point, there is some, if little, bargaining. Whether it be American, Delta, or US Airways, someone has to make it happen. Even then...we are looking at a few years before everyone is going to have a piece of the pie back in their contract. Never again will it be the same, but it can be close. Skybus may be the last, but they will be around, and its up to the pilots to make it better for themselves.

Good post! Bravo. I for one am hopping to interview and give them a look.

-rapid upgrade with $85-90K year income inside 1 year


-Be number 70 out of 1200 pilots inside 5 years!

-15 days off a month average lines

-Profit share (a company that actually stands a chance at a profit to boot!)

-Stock options

-Few overnights (home every night) - yes I can live in CMH

-65 brand new airplanes with factory maintenance

-young, excited, and motivated management and labor force

That's worth a look for me.. sorry if it's not everyones cup of tea, but I for one think the down side of skybus is no worse than what CAL and UAL are doing to major airline pilot pay.. They have no excuse.. they're not even start ups, and in the case of UAL, they've wiped out most of their debt with the help of the tax payer, so why not share a bit of the wealth with their pilots?

 

[Shrek]

Good post! Bravo. I for one am hopping (speak and spell bud)to interview and give them a look.

-rapid upgrade at all costs without regard to my fellow pilots with $85-90K year income inside 1 year


-Be number 70 out of 1200 pilots inside 5 years! Hopefully it won't matter and you won't be "picked up" after the demise of a horrible experiment such as Skyslut.

-15 days off a month average lines

-Profit share (a company that actually stands a chance at a profit to boot!)

-Stock options When is that IPO again?!

-Few overnights (home every night) - yes I can live in CMH - Have at it......personal choice I guess.

-65 brand new airplanes with factory maintenance They better sock some money away for the balloon payment.

-young, excited, and motivated management and labor undercutting force

That's worth a look for me.. sorry if it's not everyones cup of tea, but I for one think the down side of skybus is no worse than what CAL and UAL are doing to major airline pilot pay..NO thanks to you.....They have no excuse.. they're not even start ups, and in the case of UAL, they've wiped out most of their debt with the help of the tax payer, so why not share a bit of the wealth with their pilots? And how does going to a undercutting company like Skybus is going to help that?![/quote].....

 

[ualdriver]

They have no excuse.. they're not even start ups, and in the case of UAL, they've wiped out most of their debt with the help of the tax payer, so why not share a bit of the wealth with their pilots?

The rest of your post isn't even worth commenting about. Good luck with those stock options.

You'll have to explain to me how UAL wiped out their debt with the help of the tax payers?

 

[Ex737Driver]

-Profit share (a company that actually stands a chance at a profit to boot!)

That's worth a look for me.. sorry if it's not everyones cup of tea, but I for one think the down side of skybus is no worse than what CAL and UAL are doing to major airline pilot pay.. They have no excuse.. they're not even start ups, and in the case of UAL, they've wiped out most of their debt with the help of the tax payer, so why not share a bit of the wealth with their pilots?

Huh??? You might want to read a few AP or Rueters stories on the net here. AMR, CAL, DAL all just posted large third quarter gains.

The downside of Skybus??? No int'l, no connecting service, no contract, no union (say what you will), FAR limits, no perks (stock isn't worth crap and not public), no frequent flyer program, not a full-service airline, non-refundable tickets, no res number, limited gate agents, etc, etc, etc.

True. The legacies aren't start-ups. They have extensive domestic and international networks, hundereds of aircraft and thousands of employees. Most carry more passengers in a month than skybus does all year. The point is, if you think skybus is for you, great. But thinking that a flying puke stain is on the same level as the legacies/majors is dim-witted and naive.

 

[Hpilot]

They just pulled out of Bellingham WA and are reducing flights on other runs. They won't and shouldn't last.

 

[JetFumes]

Big deal...like half the regionals out there dont use the door stairs to board? Look at CLT. Over 3/4 of the E gates are outside boarding. I bet that pax total per day outdoes the per day outside boarding total in CMH.

Price will win. Skybus will stay around for a long time and has a chance to be big. Why?

1. They have the funding. (More than Jetblue when they started, and more than almost any startup airline.)

2. They have the pilots. (Why not work for 30k a year when you can be flying an Airbus?!!)

3. They have the pax. (Heard the loads are 85%...higher westbound.) This is the first player flying multiple vacation/business destination west coast flights from CMH and the people are jumping on it. They will deal with the little things to save a buck. Its the market we are in. Whether we as pilots like it or not, the management runs the ship and they are playing to the demand.

4. A business plan can and will change. (Give it time...they can make connections work when they get some of those new ((65 on order)) A-319's, a little time to build experience in this whole airline thing, and growth to support it. This is a startup, and it will take time for things to materialize into a full fledged "airline".

Summary: Whether we like it or not, Skybus has a model that is and will continue to work (for management.) They have cheap fares, destinations that people in central Ohio will want to get out of come January and costs that they can manage.

It will take the first contract of an airline to be signed that recovers the losses of 9/11 before anyone sees relief. At that point, there is some, if little, bargaining. Whether it be American, Delta, or US Airways, someone has to make it happen. Even then...we are looking at a few years before everyone is going to have a piece of the pie back in their contract. Never again will it be the same, but it can be close. Skybus may be the last, but they will be around, and its up to the pilots to make it better for themselves.

This has got to be flame bait.

 

[CA1900]

They just pulled out of Bellingham WA...

Don't you mean "Seattle"?

 

[instructordude]

Good post! Bravo. I for one am hopping to interview and give them a look.

-rapid upgrade with $85-90K year income inside 1 year


-Be number 70 out of 1200 pilots inside 5 years!

-15 days off a month average lines

-Profit share (a company that actually stands a chance at a profit to boot!)

-Stock options

-Few overnights (home every night) - yes I can live in CMH

-65 brand new airplanes with factory maintenance

-young, excited, and motivated management and labor force

That's worth a look for me.. sorry if it's not everyones cup of tea, but I for one think the down side of skybus is no worse than what CAL and UAL are doing to major airline pilot pay.. They have no excuse.. they're not even start ups, and in the case of UAL, they've wiped out most of their debt with the help of the tax payer, so why not share a bit of the wealth with their pilots?

Go for it and don't let anybody say you can't. Skybus is a good place to be!

 

[UM#1]

SKYBUS CUTTING 60% OF THEIR WEST COAST FLIGHTS....

http://dispatch.com/live/content/bu...tix.ART_ART_10-16-07_C12_KU86MMS.html?sid=101

and


http://www.jaunted.com/story/2007/10/16/9487/8544/travel/Skybus+Cutting+Three+Flights

 

[UM#1]

Already a Haters website....from customers no-doubt!!


http://www.boycott-skybus.com/

 

[imacdog]

Don't you mean "Seattle"?

...and Vancouver!

 

[HA25]

any thoughts on Spirit and Sun Country while we're on the topic of pilot wages?

 

[PinnacleDude]

Are You Skybus Management?

any thoughts on Spirit and Sun Country while we're on the topic of pilot wages?

Or the Skybus pilot recruiter? You have to be the biggest Skybus cool-aid drinker on earth. No healthy pilot drinks that much coolaid from any company.

People get impatient to get out of tough regionals. Let me tell you, my regional airline does suck balls. However, instead of putting in another year at their airline and then go to CAL, DAL, NWA, etc, they go to Skybus. Places like Skybus prey on these naive and desperate pilots with promises of gold for little or no work.

You can shine it up any way you want, but working for Skybus is still a turd. I do make more than Ranger Rick at Skybus and FWIW, I wouldn't ever take PCL or Skybus stock options either!

 

[HA25]

Or the Skybus pilot recruiter? You have to be the biggest Skybus cool-aid drinker on earth. No healthy pilot drinks that much coolaid from any company.

People get impatient to get out of tough regionals. Let me tell you, my regional airline does suck balls. However, instead of putting in another year at their airline and then go to CAL, DAL, NWA, etc, they go to Skybus. Places like Skybus prey on these naive and desperate pilots with promises of gold for little or no work.

You can shine it up any way you want, but working for Skybus is still a turd. I do make more than Ranger Rick at Skybus and FWIW, I wouldn't ever take PCL or Skybus stock options either!

Do a search of my post history... If you can demonstrate that I am anything but originally a major critic of Skybus, then I'll buy you a bottle of the best single malt you can send me a link to.

I HATED the concept of Skybus from the info I gathered from the idiots that troll these forums.. then I actually ran into an old friend who now flys for them and learned the TRUTH (missing here) about their pay, benefits, and business model, and now I'm leaning towards giving them a shot. Not yet sold, but I'm leaning that way..

 

[HA25]

Go for it and don't let anybody say you can't. Skybus is a good place to be!

Damn! The kiss of death, Instructordude like it. Maybe I really need to rethink my position!

 

[Captzaahlie]

You'll have to explain to me how UAL wiped out their debt with the help of the tax payers?

You are kidding us with that question right?

If you can spell economics you might be able to piece it together.....

 

[PCL_128]

I HATED the concept of Skybus from the info I gathered from the idiots that troll these forums.. then I actually ran into an old friend who now flys for them and learned the TRUTH (missing here) about their pay, benefits, and business model, and now I'm leaning towards giving them a shot. Not yet sold, but I'm leaning that way..

Your friend is just trying to polish a turd to make himself look like less of a scumbag. I know a few SCABs that can give a fancy speech about how they were making a great and noble decision too, but it doesn't make it right.

 

[HA25]

Your friend is just trying to polish a turd to make himself look like less of a scumbag. I know a few SCABs that can give a fancy speech about how they were making a great and noble decision too, but it doesn't make it right.

How on God's earth do you compare a guy crossing a picket line to put the very airline his fellow pilots on strike from to work with a guy going to a start up carrier that is tapping into a NEW market, and is paying what it can afford to pay at this point in time? Is Skybus taking in millions per month like DAL or UAL??? No.. will they some day? Maybe.. THEN, and ONLY THEN can you open your mouth about their pay.

There is one thing I learned from studying for an MBA in Finance that sticks to mind..

RISK=RETURN....

 

[HA25]

btw.. PCL.. I remember when as a captain at ASA I used to look down on Value Jet, or Crispy Critter as we used to later call it as a lateral move, and a bottom feeder outfit.. filled with scabs and under thread of being purchased by TWA..

Who's laughing now?

Get it?

 

[RedDogC130]

Virgin America is paying thier pilots a lot better than Skybus and flying the same aircraft right?

 

[HA25]

Virgin America is paying thier pilots a lot better than Skybus and flying the same aircraft right?

no... it's not. You as a WN guy should understand that hourly rate and pay aren't the same.. this isn't some 70 hour guarantee job.. they pay a base rate of $68 and change per hour but the typical line (15 working days) credits 100 or more.. as you get senior, the lines get better, and vice verse... so for a new hire, it's not far off that you're number 75 out of 1200 and you're flying 13-15 days a month with higher pay credit.

pilots being the greedy bastards we are (nothing wrong with that btw), as the company makes a profit, they will share in it.. one way or the other. Just look back at Value Jet pay in the early days, or Jet Blue.. for that matter Southwest.. WHO ever paid industry standard wages as a start up?

Common guys... quit the hate, and do the "Christian" thing and wish people well.. it's a breath of fresh air.

 

[PCL_128]

btw.. PCL.. I remember when as a captain at ASA I used to look down on Value Jet, or Crispy Critter as we used to later call it as a lateral move, and a bottom feeder outfit.. filled with scabs and under thread of being purchased by TWA..

Who's laughing now?

Get it?

Yes, and I have little respect for the guys who came to work here when the pay was horrendous. They sold out their fellow pilots at the other airlines who were trying to hold up the bar, and part of the result of that is the 40-50% concessions that have happened over the past few years. If it weren't for the LCCs that had substandard pay prior to 9/11, then the paycuts never would have been anywhere near what they turned out to be. But because of JetBlue, SWA, Frontier, and AirTran rates back then, managements at the legacies made those payrates a target and the courts were happy to oblige in bankruptcy. Now, Skybus is the next generation of airline that's going to sell us all out and bring us down again when management sets its sights on those rates next. And you want to be a willing participant. Unbelievable.

 

[PCL_128]

wish people well.. it's a breath of fresh air.

No it's not. It's a mouthful of dirt because you've stuck your head in the sand to try to justify this in your own mind. You know as well as we do that Skybus is bringing down the profession.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm gonna catch crap for this but if I was out of work and looking I'd give it a go to keep my family fed.

Most of the people throwing crap at these guys are working for airlines that have been in business pushing 80 years. SOMEBODY blazed the trail for them.

Gup

 

[Captzaahlie]

Virgin America is paying thier pilots a lot better than Skybus and flying the same aircraft right?

Don't ask me how or why but I got this sneaking suspicion that Virgin America and SkyBus are somehow in bed together. ......... SkyBus is leasing a few of VA's aircraft but there maybe more to it. Just a hunch.

 

[Captzaahlie]

I'm gonna catch crap for this but if I was out of work and looking I'd give it a go to keep my family fed.

Most of the people throwing crap at these guys are working for airlines that have been in business pushing 80 years. SOMEBODY blazed the trail for them.

Gup

Nicely put Gup!

 

[HA25]

Yes, and I have little respect for the guys who came to work here when the pay was horrendous. They sold out their fellow pilots at the other airlines who were trying to hold up the bar, and part of the result of that is the 40-50% concessions that have happened over the past few years. If it weren't for the LCCs that had substandard pay prior to 9/11, then the paycuts never would have been anywhere near what they turned out to be. But because of JetBlue, SWA, Frontier, and AirTran rates back then, managements at the legacies made those payrates a target and the courts were happy to oblige in bankruptcy. Now, Skybus is the next generation of airline that's going to sell us all out and bring us down again when management sets its sights on those rates next. And you want to be a willing participant. Unbelievable.

here we agree... but what the ******************** would you have me do??? Impale my self on a sword for the "profession"??? What the ******************** has this profession done for me? I spent 10 years doing the right thing, and finally got my dream job at the largest airline in the world, only to have it slammed shut for years... so what the hell am I suppose to do now, eat up my cash reserves that I've earned due to hard work and wise investments while I wait for UAL and others to grab their balls and tell their greedy managers that are paying themselves multi-million dollar bonuses that "YOU EITHEP PAY UP, OR WE'LL SHUT THIS ********************IN AIRLINE DOWN!"

Time to look after myself now bud.. sorry, done with the brotherhood bull********************.. Are you prepared for a single seniority list? I am, but what do I matter, right?

 

[PCL_128]

here we agree... but what the ******************** would you have me do??? Impale my self on a sword for the "profession"???

I hardly consider working at Gemini and waiting for your AMR recall to be "impaling yourself on a sword." You seem to want something for nothing. You want instant seniority at a growing company and instant riches from stock options. I'm sorry that your career hasn't gone as smoothly as you would have liked. That's just life, however, and you shoudn't sell out because of it. You may not be in the left seat making the "big bucks" at a major right now, but at least you still have some dignity and self-respect. Do you really want to be like the GoJet pilots that turn their IDs around when they go out in the terminal? Do you want to be the guy that has to wonder if the Captain on the flight you're trying to jumpseat on feels the same way about Skybus as I and many others do? If so, then take that dive and forget your dignity, but stop trying to convince the rest of us that it's an ok thing to do. We ain't buying it, and 20 more pages of talk about stock options isn't going to change that.

 

[HA25]

at the rate AMR is recalling, I'll be over 40 at an airline with a 12 year upgrade when I get the call.. this is an absolute fall back, and not my plan.. I need to make up for lost time. I don't expect you to understand my needs.. just accept that they're not yours. I don't really care what others think... I know from friends in pilot recruitment at American that Skybus isn't seen the way you see it among the rank and file.. this forum is going to have the statistical outliers like your self come on and call everyone a scab.. that's a given, but the reality is that the other 95% of pilots that have never heard of FI.com couldn't care less, and completely understand career choices that some HAVE to make.. Scabs are one thing.. GoJets is one thing.. Skybus is no different now than JetBlue was in 2001.. TRUST me, I am old enough to know that to be a fact..

 

[PCL_128]

at the rate AMR is recalling, I'll be over 40 at an airline with a 12 year upgrade when I get the call..

With retirements coming, upgrade won't be 12 years at AMR for long. And 40 isn't really that old. You've still got 20-25 years left in this business.

I know from friends in pilot recruitment at American that Skybus isn't seen the way you see it among the rank and file.

All I know is that I've flown with 3 Captains in the last couple of months that have made some pretty negative comments, one about denying jumpseaters, about Skybus pilots when we saw their planes in Richmond. These weren't the typical hot-head FI posters, either. These were your average everyday line Captains that have to ask me what my anti-GoJet sticker on my flight bag is all about. Word is spreading fast about Skybus, and lots of guys aren't happy.