NJI and NJA Merger Official

[CA1900]

Wolf -- it'd be an integration, which is a two-way street. With that in mind, it'd be nice to see that aspect of NJI's culture spread over to this side, not vice-versa!

 

[x402]

One other quick note to add. If our operation system is shut down (Okatie that is) and we have to deal with CMH... This double rated G pilot will most likely look for other employment.

This statement has nothing to do with unions or NJA pilots, and everything to do with our operations people. They are far far superior to CMH, most were hand picked and plucked from that side anyway... they are a pleasure to work with, and that better never change.

We have schedulers with MA's in Aviation Management (of course they are working their way up the ladder)! Our daily contact with the company is completely different than that of the A side operation. No airport standby, no hanging out at the FBO's, no middle man, etc etc.

I'm sure that our senior guys lament the days when they could call the schedulers and chat, it's a growth and numbers game. Hell, even when I showed up, 7 years ago, a pizza delivery went a long way.
Times change and flight manager in CMH is an entry level position.

 

[Mountain Troll]

Just a quick reminder, NJA pilots were promised that NJI was going to be part of their group many years ago. NJI pilots were promised that there would NEVER be a union on property or that NJI would NEVER fold into NJA. NJA pilots were upset about the many empty promises and now, NJI pilots are pissed that they were lied to. The working environment is much more relaxed, responsive and respectful in Okatie than CMH. Would you want to loose that? NJI Management will always take time to listen, offer suggestions and try to help you, not screw you. Would you want to loose that? How often have you been apprehensive about the unknown or undertaking of a big step in your life?

Now, I will respectfully point out the money thing again. First year Capt. At NJI which is about year number 3 or 4 in service is 110K. NJA year 3 pay for over 40,000lb is 93,732. RTS has a goal to get NJA to fly the Gulfstreams cheaper. Don’t ever believe RTS isn’t doing this for gain. Large corporations lie to their stockholders, employees, management and customers. Don’t ever believe that this is a gift or that you or your union earned it. There is any underlying reason. This is a good deal for RTS, with a deal in-place that will lock everyone up for the next 8 years means that a stable labor force is very attractive to any prospective buyers. (speculation not fact)

On a last note, it is impossible to make everyone happy. Not you, me, RTS or the union is going to make everbody peaceful, content or even slightly happy. The deal before us is to the benefit of RTS, but, it also seems to keep all involved thinking it is a good deal for them. No one can guarantee that this deal is going to be great, or how it really is going to effect us and our families. Lets give it a try, if it doesn’t work, lets get in to the catering business for aircraft…….

 

[imacdog]

Now, I will respectfully point out the money thing again. First year Capt. At NJI which is about year number 3 or 4 in service is 110K. NJA year 3 pay for over 40,000lb is 93,732. RTS has a goal to get NJA to fly the Gulfstreams cheaper. Don’t ever believe RTS isn’t doing this for gain.

And the odds of a year-3 NJA pilot flying a Gulfstream as captain would be........

 

[NJApilot]

First year Capt. At NJI which is about year number 3 or 4 in service is 110K. NJA year 3 pay for over 40,000lb is 93,732.

The figure you provide for Year 3/CAPT at NJA is correct. As was somewhat alluded to in a subsequent post, assuming that a merger takes place, YR3 Captain on a Gulfstream is not likely. It would take a period of several years for everything to "shake out" in terms of equipment/seat position, relative to overall seniority. After the initial shake out, the Gulfstream awards will go much senior (stating the obvious I know).

Granted, I do not know what the NJI payscales look like....but my guess is that the NJA wages are less than NJI in the earlier years (say YR 1 to YR 5) then cross in later years (say, YR 10+) -- meaning the NJA pay might be higher than NJI in the later years (when, again, most captains will see a Gulfstream award). Just a wild-*ss guess on my part.

Also worth mentioning, the 18-day fixed schedule at NJA pays $114,025 at YR 3 CAPT (for a/c greater than 40,000 LBS). I'm not sure how (or if) this figure compares to a similar reserve schedule at NJI. YEAR 10 CAPT (18-D) pays $145,072. YEAR 17 CAPT (18-D) pays $187,260.

 

[NJApilot]

I'm sure that our senior guys lament the days when they could call the schedulers and chat, it's a growth and numbers game.

I agree that because of our growth it eventualy became impractical to call our schedulers and inquire about x, y or z. But by limiting pilot contact with the schedulers, it also cut out the A-Team factor that was fairly prevalent 5+ years ago. There were even rumors, at that time, of schedulers being "compensated" for extended days, etc. I'm not sure if any of this was true, but it seemed that way sometimes. And trust me, I'm not saying that the A-Team has disappeared either -- but they have definitely had their legs chopped off at the knees.

A smaller organization like NJI, obviously, has some advantages. I'm not convinced that we could now implement such a thing at NJA, though, given our size. A "culture improvement" is very much needed, however.

 

[Cavpilot]

RTS has a goal to get NJA to fly the Gulfstreams cheaper. Don’t ever believe RTS isn’t doing this for gain. Large corporations lie to their stockholders, employees, management and customers. Don’t ever believe that this is a gift or that you or your union earned it. There is any underlying reason. This is a good deal for RTS, with a deal in-place that will lock everyone up for the next 8 years means that a stable labor force is very attractive to any prospective buyers.

EXACTLY!!! I wish more of my NJA brethren saw it this way. It is amazing to me how in two short years RTS has gone from being the face of pure evil to our drinking buddy. The fact is, he is neither. RTS is a world class businessman. Don't forget it.

 

[RNObased]

We have schedulers with MA's in Aviation Management (of course they are working their way up the ladder)! Our daily contact with the company is completely different than that of the A side operation. No airport standby, no hanging out at the FBO's, no middle man, etc etc.

Beg, to differ with you there Wolfpack, I have seen you guys hanging out in FBOs sitting standby, as much as we do, NO. But it happens.

Hell dude, the CMH schedulers have MA's in BS, does that count?? Looking for those pay scales for you.

I agree with Diesel, that five year equipement locks will keep some people away.

 

[NJApilot]

I can't imagine that a handful of workers could stop the plans of a majority. That doesn't seem fair, but I wouldn't be surprised if a two-thirds majority was required. I'm sure those interested will do the research and follow all of the rules if de-certification of the Teamsters is supported by the NJA pilots. A long period free of labor strife would be good timing for the establishment of an in-house union.

NJW:

I agree with your assessment and sentiment. The IBT would be hard pressed to subvert the will of the majority in this case. The general impression I receive from almost all of the crewmembers on the road (and my own impression) is, "What value-added benefit do we really receive from the IBT anyway?" Other than IBT's (potential) financial resources in the event of a major labor dispute/strike, I can think of no other benefit (ok, we get a magazine too...lol). At least ALPA (no friend of mine, mind you) lobbies on behalf of the pilot profession and spends some of its dues receivable on aviation safety initiatives. IBT does none of this.

Two-thrids majority sounds about right. I do not believe a threshold of 100% would have to met.

Keep in mind, we pay IBT roughly $90,000 per month in dues. That figure left in my mouth (and leaves to this day) a very bad taste....and I can only assume that many others (at least, those "in the know") feel the same.

I believe, on this issue, that the writing is on the wall unless the IBT miraculously steps up and wins us over, with something along the lines of a retirement benefit package or other ($$) incentive.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Can someone please post the pay scales for NJA cross overs in G aircraft after this LOA goes into effect? (if you tell me to hit the search button FlyLow I'm kicking your *ss)

Only because you asked nicely...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=103916&page=2

Post 18, 19 ad 21.

Since that post, there has been an additional agreement for pay up through year 18 with 4% bumps every year.

Please keep in mind that these are BASE PAY rates that do not reflect OT, EXT DAYS, HOLIDAY PAY, etc.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Only because you asked nicely...

Thanks Dude!

 

[Diesel]

I can feel the love from here.

 

[Mountain Troll]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Troll
First year Capt. At NJI which is about year number 3 or 4 in service is 110K. NJA year 3 pay for over 40,000lb is 93,732.
The figure you provide for Year 3/CAPT at NJA is correct. As was somewhat alluded to in a subsequent post, assuming that a merger takes place, YR3 Captain on a Gulfstream is not likely. It would take a period of several years for everything to "shake out" in terms of equipment/seat position, relative to overall seniority. After the initial shake out, the Gulfstream awards will go much senior (stating the obvious I know).

Granted, I do not know what the NJI payscales look like....but my guess is that the NJA wages are less than NJI in the earlier years (say YR 1 to YR 5) then cross in later years (say, YR 10+) -- meaning the NJA pay might be higher than NJI in the later years (when, again, most captains will see a Gulfstream award). Just a wild-*ss guess on my part.

Also worth mentioning, the 18-day fixed schedule at NJA pays $114,025 at YR 3 CAPT (for a/c greater than 40,000 LBS). I'm not sure how (or if) this figure compares to a similar reserve schedule at NJI. YEAR 10 CAPT (18-D) pays $145,072. YEAR 17 CAPT (18-D) pays $187,260.


Now all that bieng said, which I agree with, NJApilot, but, NJI flys 7 n 7 only. Sure an extended tour now and then, but it's time and a half for that. Now, there isn't a posted payscale there, but, if you take that 110K to start as a Capt. and add 4% each year, year 8 number would be about $150,543! my point being that when the class 4 evaporated and became >40k lbs NJA is going to be paid less to do the same job. I don't care what side of the fence, it aint right. The next contract needs to be addressed with this subject in my pi$$ed off opinion. Every NJA and NJI pilot need to get closer to a corporate/charter salary level in the G. SO, get in the door, wait a little bit, quietly get the majority numbers up, play nice and then put our foot DOWN and get the numbers up again!

 

[RNObased]

SO, get in the door, wait a little bit, quietly get the majority numbers up, play nice and then put our foot DOWN and get the numbers up again!

Ding, Ding, ding, we have a winner. The those of us that are young enough and high enough up the senority list, this is the answer.

It is a marathon not a sprint.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I can feel the love from here.

I'm feeling the love in Boston amigo. Gotta love Tito. 8-0 in World Series games. The fact that he played ball (and won the College World Series) at my alma mater has nothing to do with it of course:beer: