Ole Gardner checking up on Flight Options

[Myster79]

Furthermore, B19 is not Bob. I am thinking this is one of our great PSM's. God knows they have time to sit around and write on the message boards. That is if they are not to busy asking us to fly through thunderstorms in broken airplanes with no crew meals after a 14 hour day at the FBO!

 

[Frac Cap]

Hey B19, I guess you don't want to answer my simple straight to the point question?

Because I am truly currious how a management team can see fit to give themselves a raise receiently (and who knows how many other raises they have had in the past few years) and never since the existance of Flight Options have they adjusted the captains pay.

OOOPS, I stand corrected, I do recall that they did adjust the Falcon captains pay four or five years ago. But the problem with that was.....

IT WENT BACKWARDS!

Sorry for loosing my composure, I am normally a calm person.

 

[fischman]

Delaying flights intentionally by writing up items that would not normally be written up creates additional human factors issues and INCREASES RISK.

Not supporting the company by refusing ALL overtime, no matter how small it is adds operational demands to all people in the operation and creates additional human factors issues and INCREASES RISK.

Causing cancellations and forcing passengers onto charter flights that are not owned by the company INCREASES RISK to the ower.

Apparently, because the union is not capable of negotiating a contract without tactics such as these, you are an advocate of INCREASED RISK.

If I thought for a moment that any union would come on and not threaten the careers of rank and file employees, the financial health of the company or increase risk during the negotiation process I wouldn't feel the way I do but history has shown otherwise.

Oh, and while I'm talking about history, get off the NJ short term contract effects and lets talk INDUSTRY. Every carrier has had a union agreement and at times has been profitable.

Yet every carrier since the beginning of time has has labor trouble and unions have been slow to react forcing carriers into bankruptcy as a result.

You never answered the question.

Are you suggesting that pilots NOT write up broken items? It seems that you are.

You are going to get someone killed. Especially if the person you are flying with is a weak-minded fool.

 

[fischman]

First, my response was directed at all those that agreed with the concepts the "Gardner" stated about adhering to the "rules".

Next, I have seen one specific airline get to the point where they had to define drips and drops of fluid and what would constitute a paint chip or peel. The delay would occur when maintenance would be called to detirmine if the 1/4" puddle on the ground or oily strunt without a puddle after an 8 hour overnight constituted a leaky nose wheel strut to ground a 1900C. Same with paint chips. These are what I call unwarranted BS write-ups but this carrier was smart enough to define them and eliminate the problem. If Flight Ops is smart, they too will create guidelines as such to prevent unwarranted writeups. Pilots aren't mechanics and sometimes they need a little help to detirmine what is truly a problem, and what is there to disrupt an airline out of spite to support the union.

Paint chips a BS write-up? Are you kidding me?

Where were the paint chips? How big were they? Were they in a position to go into a pitot tube? Paint chips near a static port are legitimate write-ups on ANY airplane, and depending on the MEL, most are grouding items! Did you think of that smarty pants?

Try to think before you post. I know it is difficult for a person who thinks he knows everything (and is more wrong than he realizes) and demands on imposing his flawed opinions on others. You are an incredible jacka$$, and I have pity on any person who has to actually fly with one such as yourself.

I personally feel that attitudes like yours are incredibly dangerous, and have no business in the aivation industry.

 

[fischman]

First, my response was directed at all those that agreed with the concepts the "Gardner" stated about adhering to the "rules".

Next, I have seen one specific airline get to the point where they had to define drips and drops of fluid and what would constitute a paint chip or peel. The delay would occur when maintenance would be called to detirmine if the 1/4" puddle on the ground or oily strunt without a puddle after an 8 hour overnight constituted a leaky nose wheel strut to ground a 1900C. Same with paint chips. These are what I call unwarranted BS write-ups but this carrier was smart enough to define them and eliminate the problem. If Flight Ops is smart, they too will create guidelines as such to prevent unwarranted writeups. Pilots aren't mechanics and sometimes they need a little help to detirmine what is truly a problem, and what is there to disrupt an airline out of spite to support the union.

What in the world do you need to see in order to have a write-up?

How about a engine fire? Will that do?

What about a PFD failure? Is that a good write-up?

Flat tire?

You are a danger to the flying community.

 

[Hobbes]

This has probably all been said before, but can you imagine if B19 is who he says he is what a loser he is that he has all this time to surf and reply on the board about our industry? I am sure he would have some BS excuse for why it makes sense to him....

And if he is who we all think he is, then I don't have to explain what a loser he is then, do I? Taking all that time to mess around on this board instead of working on some kind of real solution to the messed up situations at Flight Options....

B19, you are not even worth the space your username would take up on a bingo card. HA! Don't bother to respond, I don't give a ********************.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Paint chips a BS write-up? Are you kidding me?

Where were the paint chips? How big were they? Were they in a position to go into a pitot tube? Paint chips near a static port are legitimate write-ups on ANY airplane, and depending on the MEL, most are grouding items! Did you think of that smarty pants?

Try to think before you post. I know it is difficult for a person who thinks he knows everything (and is more wrong than he realizes) and demands on imposing his flawed opinions on others. You are an incredible jacka$$, and I have pity on any person who has to actually fly with one such as yourself.

I personally feel that attitudes like yours are incredibly dangerous, and have no business in the aivation industry.

That attitude of the "know it all pilot" is exactly why paint chips and fluid leak issues were clearly defined in the aircraft AFM for both fleets and signed off by the FAA. Even the Feds got tired of the actions of the union and fully agreed that the only way to stem the tide of ridiculous write-ups that were clearly designed to slow the carrier down was to clearly define what each item was. To my knowledge, these are still in place there.

You have NO idea how much stress and additional risk your union activities place on rank and file employees and other pilots that want no part of it.

 

[fischman]

That attitude of the "know it all pilot" is exactly why paint chips and fluid leak issues were clearly defined in the aircraft AFM for both fleets and signed off by the FAA. Even the Feds got tired of the actions of the union and fully agreed that the only way to stem the tide of ridiculous write-ups that were clearly designed to slow the carrier down was to clearly define what each item was. To my knowledge, these are still in place there.

You have NO idea how much stress and additional risk your union activities place on rank and file employees and other pilots that want no part of it.

My comments had NOTHING to do with unionism. It was about common sense, which you obviously lack. ANY pilot that does not question an oil leak, or paint chips near pitot static ports is putting their plane and their crew in serious jeopardy. I would call for discipline action against anybody who would fly an aircraft in that condition, and I would phone the FAA on ANY manager that would pressure me to fly a plane in that condition.

I will repeat from my previous post:

You are a danger to the flying community.

 

[Freedom]

There goes Bob again...

That attitude of the "know it all pilot" is exactly why paint chips and fluid leak issues were clearly defined in the aircraft AFM for both fleets and signed off by the FAA. Even the Feds got tired of the actions of the union and fully agreed that the only way to stem the tide of ridiculous write-ups that were clearly designed to slow the carrier down was to clearly define what each item was. To my knowledge, these are still in place there.

You have NO idea how much stress and additional risk your union activities place on rank and file employees and other pilots that want no part of it.

With his Divide and Conquer game plan.

Keep it up Bob. It seems to be working for the Majority of our Pilots very nicely.

Everytime you insult our intelligence with your divide and conquer tactics designed for the weak minded, you remind the majority of our Pilots just how little you think of them.

And then you seem surprised when you get a backlash. Only difference now is, with the latest attack of your scheduling policy, packaged in the form of a vacation bid, which ALL our Pilots see as a theft campaign to get more work days from us for no more pay, you sir crossed the line.

Our Pilots now not only view you as the enemy, now you are viewed as a common criminal, along with the two other rocket scientists you work for.

Thanks for the help in building our solidarity. It would have been much tougher without you.

Are you sure you are not a closet Union Supporter Bob?

Freedom is not Free

 

[Frac Cap]

B19, HELLLOOOO, Mc Flyyyy! I am still waiting for an answer. I guess your non response means you do not want an intellectual debate, but rather just pick your battles that you feel you could win in your mind. Or maybe you just get a kick out of all the attention, and just like to stir things up.

 

[Myster79]

That attitude of the "know it all pilot" is exactly why paint chips and fluid leak issues were clearly defined in the aircraft AFM for both fleets and signed off by the FAA. Even the Feds got tired of the actions of the union and fully agreed that the only way to stem the tide of ridiculous write-ups that were clearly designed to slow the carrier down was to clearly define what each item was. To my knowledge, these are still in place there.

You have NO idea how much stress and additional risk your union activities place on rank and file employees and other pilots that want no part of it.

Again B19, there is no such thing as a ridiculous write up. You truly have no place in a cockpit. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I see now there is no use.

And to my knowledge, the FAA is very interested in the MX issues at Flt Opts. Actually I believe they are starting an investigation.

 

[dime line]

Again B19, there is no such thing as a ridiculous write up. You truly have no place in a cockpit. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I see now there is no use.

And to my knowledge, the FAA is very interested in the MX issues at Flt Opts. Actually I believe they are starting an investigation.

Quite a few management pilots here at FLOPS that should not be in the cockpit

 

[Myster79]

Quite a few management pilots here at FLOPS that should not be in the cockpit

I could not agree with you more. Again, thank God we are the ones that are actually flying these aircraft

 

[B19 Flyer]

Again B19, there is no such thing as a ridiculous write up. You truly have no place in a cockpit. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I see now there is no use.

And to my knowledge, the FAA is very interested in the MX issues at Flt Opts. Actually I believe they are starting an investigation.

Drips, drops and paint chips are cleary defined in the FAA approved aircraft flight manual as within the limitations of the aircraft at this specific regional carrier. If they didn't fit the defined criteria, they weren't considered reportable.

Attempts to write them up was an obvious attempt by the union to slow the airline down and the FAA agreed.

I guess the Feds were out to lunch on that one, eh? They didn't agree with the union either.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19, HELLLOOOO, Mc Flyyyy! I am still waiting for an answer. I guess your non response means you do not want an intellectual debate, but rather just pick your battles that you feel you could win in your mind. Or maybe you just get a kick out of all the attention, and just like to stir things up.

First, I didn't respond because it didn't have anything to do with me.

Second, If you want my opinion on it, here it is...

Become a manager and see just how easy it is yourself. If you ain't got the nuts to put that pair of shoes on, you don't have the right to critique it.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Become a manager and see just how easy it is yourself. If you ain't got the nuts to put that pair of shoes on, you don't have the right to critique it.

By that logic, no one could criticize their elected leaders in this country unless they've been a representative, senator or the president. You'd have no basis to say a doctor is doing a bad job unless you've been an M.D. And you couldn't criticize union leaders unless you've been in those shoes yourself, according to your logic.

 

[B19 Flyer]

By that logic, no one could criticize their elected leaders in this country unless they've been a representative, senator or the president. You'd have no basis to say a doctor is doing a bad job unless you've been an M.D. And you couldn't criticize union leaders unless you've been in those shoes yourself, according to your logic.

Great comparison. But unless you've been a representative, senator or president yourself, you can complain but you still don't have a clue unless you've walked in their shoes.

The big difference here is that pilots have the opportunity to step up to the plate and into management but don't. They'd rather complain and blame others for stuff they don't understand.

Not everybody can run for congress.

 

[Myster79]

Drips, drops and paint chips are cleary defined in the FAA approved aircraft flight manual as within the limitations of the aircraft at this specific regional carrier. If they didn't fit the defined criteria, they weren't considered reportable.

Attempts to write them up was an obvious attempt by the union to slow the airline down and the FAA agreed.

I guess the Feds were out to lunch on that one, eh? They didn't agree with the union either.

B19 it does not matter what the FAA approved for that regional carrier. This is the problem with our management, WE ARE NOT A REGIONAL AIRLINE! We fly some of the wealthiest people in the world.

I think it is time we start educating our owners about Flight Options MX practices!

 

[dime line]

B19 it does not matter what the FAA approved for that regional carrier. This is the problem with our management, WE ARE NOT A REGIONAL AIRLINE!

We fly some of the wealthiest people in the world.

I think it is time we start educating our owners about Flight Options MX practices!

Wait a minute, we fly the people that OWN the airlines.......Get it right.......

 

[Frac Cap]

First, I didn't respond because it didn't have anything to do with me.

Second, If you want my opinion on it, here it is...

Become a manager and see just how easy it is yourself. If you ain't got the nuts to put that pair of shoes on, you don't have the right to critique it.

I see that you will not directly debate my question. By the way you answered my question, it sounds like you are a politician. I guess you must be a manager.

Well, to answer you, I have a degree in management, I have managed, and I also ran a small company that I started up on my own. I understand how difficult it must be to deal with so many A type personalities in such a large company.

Flight Options problem is that the management at the top doesn't know how to manage and run a fractional. Some may have experience managing a commuter, some may have experience managing a garage door company, and some may have experience managing a 7-11 (we all know who that is). But having experience doesn't mean that they are any good at their job. The problem is none of them have any experience running a fractional, and they are defiantly not good at their job. They are not leaders, and they do not know how to manage pilots.

I may get flamed for saying this, but as of right now I am not including Bob T in this group of misfits. Bob I realize that there are a lot of things going wrong with this company, and I don't necessarily blame you, yet. I know you only have so much power and that most of these problems are likely coming from the puppet master, whose only prior experience was managing a bell hop stand. But Bob, heed my advice now, this company is quickly going down a path of mismanagement, and screwed up policies. Management is on the brink of killing this company. I don't want to see that happen. Educate them, please show them the light before it is too late.

 

[SilverSurfer]

But Bob, heed my advice now, this company is quickly going down a path of mismanagement, and screwed up policies. Management is on the brink of killing this company. I don't want to see that happen. Educate them, please show them the light before it is too late.

Dude, the only education that Bob could give sh!thead and his 7-11 brass bender is to stop listing to Ford & Harrison and get serious about a contract. Nothing short of a contract will fix this train wreck.

 

[400pilot]

The big difference here is that pilots have the opportunity to step up to the plate and into management but don't. They'd rather complain and blame others for stuff they don't understand.

What fantasy world are you living in? What opportunity? Our upper management will not hire any pilot into any management position. What's more, they refuse to listen to us about anything.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Great comparison. But unless you've been a representative, senator or president yourself, you can complain but you still don't have a clue unless you've walked in their shoes.

The big difference here is that pilots have the opportunity to step up to the plate and into management but don't. They'd rather complain and blame others for stuff they don't understand.

Not everybody can run for congress.

Seems awful arrogant to assume that all pilots have the opportunity or desire to enter into management. Do you honestly believe that all pilots are cut out for management duties? Conversely, do you think every member of management at FO could become a competent line pilot? Different skill sets.

You say not everyone can run for congress, which is true. But not everyone that runs for congress is truly capable of being an effective leader.

 

[Biodegradable]

It is a known fact that several members of congress are criminals. What Flight Options management is doing may or may not be criminal but it is certainly immoral and un-ethical.

About two years ago management made a policy that allowed only residents of Cleveland to be members of management. That policy has eliminated most qualified applicants.

There are many current and former pilots at Flight Options that have either applied for management positions and have been rejected or have been forced out of those positions due to the policy.

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

The big difference here is that pilots have the opportunity to step up to the plate and into management but don't. They'd rather complain and blame others for stuff they don't understand.

Kissing butt to mgt!!!!!! Many have tried, you want kiss butt yes people not real pilots and leaders! I know for a fact that many line pilots have more time in type then check airman and the PMS (not a typo) do total time! Yet we are to take orders from them and the folks that can't pass the training for a dispatcher certificate! They of course are yes people, pilots are professionals!

FLOPS does not want professionals! We are the lowest paid, most worked, lowlife of the "CHARTER" industry, and we have SCABS in management!!!!!!!!! We are the laughing stock of aviation. Everyone knows it except for management!

Word is getting out our customers know the truth!

BTW how is the billboard at TEB looking to you? I was in TEB yesterday, the line guy that picked us up at the eating place pointed it out! The 7 of us in the van, 2 FLOPS, 2 NJA, 3 Corporate got a big laugh, at the expense of management like you, and dee and dumb!

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

Wait a minute, we fly the people that OWN the airlines.......Get it right.......

Heard that we use to fly the owner of Mesa, do we still? Having worked there if true, I find this funny!!!!

 

[netjetwife]

Congratulations on the billboard! What does it say? Description please? I remember when the NJ pilots put their's up. It's a very effective way to get your message across loud and clear. Management can run but they can't hide ...from a billboard at TEB...

 

[Ben Dover FLOPS]

Delaying flights intentionally by writing up items that would not normally be written up creates additional human factors issues and INCREASES RISK.

Not supporting the company by refusing ALL overtime, no matter how small it is adds operational demands to all people in the operation and creates additional human factors issues and INCREASES RISK.

Causing cancellations and forcing passengers onto charter flights that are not owned by the company INCREASES RISK to the ower.

Apparently, because the union is not capable of negotiating a contract without tactics such as these, you are an advocate of INCREASED RISK.

If I thought for a moment that any union would come on and not threaten the careers of rank and file employees, the financial health of the company or increase risk during the negotiation process I wouldn't feel the way I do but history has shown otherwise.

Oh, and while I'm talking about history, get off the NJ short term contract effects and lets talk INDUSTRY. Every carrier has had a union agreement and at times has been profitable.

Yet every carrier since the beginning of time has has labor trouble and unions have been slow to react forcing carriers into bankruptcy as a result.

Just remember, Bob. All of this "INCREASED RISK" can be attributed to Flight Options' crappy upper management. They, in fact, invited, though their anti-pilot (no: anti-human) actions, a union on property. We were once a motivated pilot force and, one day if management does not run this place into bankruptcy, we will be again.


As you once said:

A company gets the Union it deserves!

I'll add:

And a workforce gets the Union they EARN!

 

[Ben Dover FLOPS]

First, I didn't respond because it didn't have anything to do with me.

Second, If you want my opinion on it, here it is...

Become a manager and see just how easy it is yourself. If you ain't got the nuts to put that pair of shoes on, you don't have the right to critique it.uke:

....or the a$$ kissin' lips

.....or the fishnets and pumps to wear while Shawn has his way with you daily.............while you ask for more!:blush:

I don't know if you are Bob but you are DEFINITELY Scheeringa's b!tch, dude!:laugh:

 

[SilverSurfer]

B19 or Bob T

B19 or Bob T. who gives a sh!t. They are obviously cut from the same piece of defective cloth. Both have the opinion that management is the pinnacle of achievement in aviation, that management is the fix for all that ails us, and that they/management should prosper in bad times while their employees should take it in the shorts. He and Bob think all of us pilots are a bunch of ignorant whining "A types" that should just be thankful that we have a job and do what ever he and his mooron PM/PSM group tells us...:angryfire NOT happening Bob.

B19 talked about the Airlines Unions and the pilots waiting till looming bankruptcy before giving concessions. At least they did pitch in to help. But what about management, did they take cuts in pay and benefits, did they work more, if they did are they now going to have fight to get back what they gave up. Hell no. In fact they will get large bonuses far and above anything they may have given up and far more then the pilots will get.

B19/Bob you have have a VERY biased, one sided view of the world. In your world management is everything and everyone else is here to serve them....
uke: NOT