SkyWest - USA Today

[Scapegoat]

The nice part about this drive is that in about 5 weeks all the talk about unions and skywest can finally stop one way or the other. It amazes me how much time people spend trying to convince others what is right for THEM and the industry, (and then threaten them with open ended questions about how it will effect a future position with other airlines).

I have an answer, it wont effect it at all. Remember who does the hiring at these jobs. Its not unionized line pilots thats for sure. Or maybe you will have to show your APLA card just to get into the interview.

 

[siucavflight]

So, care to explain United reasoning then? Or is it just beneficial to know why US Airways is doing so? I guess you're only a half the story kind of guy then.

Are you sure your a lowly dispatcher? From your post I am almost sure you fly for SKW.

A very small fraction of United pilots wants to form their own union, like American did with APA. This is not a bad idea, at least they will be represented, it is all about representation, does not matter how you get it. SKW is not able to have their own union because they would not be able to fund it on their own, they need on organization with deep pockets.

 

[XPOO]

I don't care about ALPA one way or the other. But unions are businesses, plain and simple. They need money. When they see a pilot group as large as SkyWest all they see is dollar signs. SkyWest is also a business. I don't see how you can seperate the two. Both are out to make money. You say SkyWest wants to throw it's pilots under the bus to make a buck. Well who is to say ALPA wont do the same? They are BOTH businesses. ALPA uses your money to put ads in newspapers, makes keychains, lanyards, pamphlets, hot dogs, burgers and sodas for non-union members....and you don't see that a inappropriate use of company funds? Shouldn't the money you pay to the union go to things other than supplying food and accessories to non-union members?

 

[SkyNation]

They want Skywest pilots to join so they can have legal representation that is good for them, not good for the company.

do you believe that this letter, the $ to pay for it, and all the people behind it are acting purely altruistically? just out of good ol' fashioned concern for us SkyWest pilots?

 

[BoilerUP]

You say SkyWest wants to throw it's pilots under the bus to make a buck.

I have never said Skywest "wants to throw its pilots under the bus to make a buck". What I have said that Skywest pilots rely on management benevolence to get pay and work rule improvements, and that is a statement of fact.

Now don't get me wrong, SKW currently pays better and has work rules superior to many ALPA regionals...but some represented carriers have better and there are many that have said Skywest has back-slided on COLA and workrules in the last couple years. Don't Skywest pilots deserve the ability to get more $$$ given their company's growth and financial success, especially the hard-working Bro pilots that got stiffed a couple years ago?

Well who is to say ALPA wont do the same? They are BOTH businesses.

They are both businesses in the sense that they have revenue and liability streams...but one has a duty and obligation to shareholders and one has a duty and obligation to the people they represent. Failure to do by the union so can lead to Denial of Fair Representation lawsuits, which if a judge decides are with merit can be EXTREMELY costly to the union.

ALPA uses your money to put ads in newspapers, makes keychains, lanyards, pamphlets, hot dogs, burgers and sodas for non-union members....and you don't see that a inappropriate use of company funds?

No, I do not.

Shouldn't the money you pay to the union go to things other than supplying food and accessories to non-union members?

I personally believe Skywest pilots have much to gain from ALPA representation with upside far outweighing downside, though some would disagree with that. I also know that all small-jet pilots stand to gain from Skywest pilots participating in pattern bargaining which they benefit from but do not contribute to at this time.

This has absolutely nothing to do with wishing financial harm on Skywest or its employees, and everything to do with standing together to fight for what we as pilots rightfully deserve for our hard work and sacrifices. With unity, everyone in this profession stands to gain compensation and work rule improvements and as such, I think the USA Today ad and other recruitment expenses are a very good use of dues.

 

[XPOO]

I wasn't directing any of my comments directly at you, I was simply addressing the whole forum. But...those shareholders that SkyWest is looking out for also happens to be the very pilots you are talking about as well as every employee in the ESPP plan. Those margins translate over to our bonuses. Sure, if you want $20 more a month now and will forgo $300 per bonus check to do so, management will hop all over that. Why would they want to pay you $300 every three months when they can just pay you $60 in three monthly installments? Your logic is flawed. And my math is overexagerated to drive home a point, I in no way intend that number to be realistic so don't come back bashing the numbers.

 

[USCtrojan]

do you believe that this letter, the $ to pay for it, and all the people behind it are acting purely altruistically? just out of good ol' fashioned concern for us SkyWest pilots?

Do you think your mgmt. acts completely altruistically for the BENEFIT of YOU, or do you think they use YOU to put MORE $$ in their own pockets? Skywhore (that's all you care about, more growth at the expense of others fight), your arguments are more and more annoying. Jerry does NOT represent YOU. And I find it comical you thinks he cares about you.

Trojan

 

[SkyNation]

USCdickbag

thanks for another well-thought out and intelligent response. you're a class act

 

[John Pennekamp]

All ALPA wants is your money. They will NOT do anything to help you. Look at how well the other Airline Pilots they represent are doing. Most SkyWest pilots would have to take some serious pay cuts to go to any so called Major Airlines that ALPA represents. It would take 5-10 years for a SkyWest pilot to break even if they went to any other ALPA airline.

PS. Look how they screwed up with Trans States vs. GoJets. They refused to spend money to fight for Trans States Pilots. Period!

Weak argument.


As has been pointed out about a hundred times now, ALPA gives more money to the regionals than it receives in revenue. Always has been that way. Taking on Skywest would be a financial burden. The reason ALPA wants SkyWest is the power in unity. As long as there's a "GDI" out there undercutting everyone at the regional level, we'll have a hard time bettering the deals for everyone else.

If y'all want to be the next MESA, go ahead and shoot the union down. If you're ready to step up to to plate, put down the kool-aid, pull your head out of the sand, and vote in the union. Right now, you're the odd man out. Y'all are too big an airline for that now. Get with the program or be left behind!

Oh, and the hiring question. Why would a recruiter want to hire a Skywest pilot if the union drive fails? The answer is that the HR/management people would love SkyWest pilots. They know they have a management lover. The problem is that most hiring boards are run by pilots. Usually the pilots on the board outnumber the HR people. I wouldn't be surprised if the pilots get sick of the pro-management attitude over there and start telling the SkyWest pilots no if this drive fails.

I think this letter was meant to be a bit of a wake up call to SkyWest pilots that airline pilots around the country have taken notice and that you aren't going to get a free ride anymore.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I think it's definitely worth noting to the Skywest pilots that this wasn't just a letter from ALPA. This letter was signed by the Presidents of the independent unions at UPS, American, and Southwest also. For those that claim that this drive is only about ALPA getting more dues money, this proves you wrong. The IPA, APA, and SWAPA have absolutely no money to gain from Skywest joining ALPA. Their signatures should show you that this is about doing what is right for your careers and your profession. This is not about money. This is about standing up for yourselves and contributing to the advancement of your profession.

Do the right thing. Vote YES!

www.skywestalpa.org

My first thought was this must be the first time ALPA and all of the independent unions got together and agreed on anything!

My second thought was where's FPA and NPA?

 

[XPOO]

So ALPA is like the Jehova Witness? They go door to door on existing members money, asking you to give up a few minor details in your life (such as giving up some of your money and birthday as well as Christmas) in exchange for salvation from eteranal damnation? Well, hot-diggitty-darn, who wouldn't wanna hop on that bandwagon.

 

[USCtrojan]

USCdickbag

thanks for another well-thought out and intelligent response. you're a class act

USCdickbag?!?? That got a good chuckle. Thanks for the laugh. You're still a whore, and I can change my handle any time I want. LMAO. Safe day flying!

Hey, SkyWhore, did I touch a nerve, you seem a little agitated? Too bad you can't fire me huh? MY UNION SPEAKS FOR ME, AND I TELL 'EM WHAT TO SAY!

Trojan

 

[ualdriver]

Why do some of you keep saying that ALPA only wants Skywest for its dues money? Skywest will be a net DRAIN on the ALPA treasury during its entire membership to the Association if it is voted in, and ALPA leadership knows that. If all ALPA cared about was the ALPA treasury, every regional in ALPA would be booted, and they certainly wouldn't be trying to recruit yet another one.

There was an attempt at United to start a new Union, true. I think they just sent out their final communication a week or two, as the drive has failed. It was created by a small group of pilots who were unhappy with ALPA. We have 1000's of pilots at ALPA and obviously some guys are not going to be happy with their representation, just like at any other airline. It was their right to seek a change in representation, it couldn't convince our pilots that it could do a better job than ALPA, and now it's done as far as I know. If there is a group of pilots at any airline who have a better solution than ALPA (despite its warts), I'm all ears.

There are plenty of reasons why a Skywest pilot might want to vote no for ALPA representation on their property, and that's fine. I personally think the good reasons far outweigh the bad reasons, but that's for the Skywest pilots to decide. However, to say that ALPA just wants Skywest for its dues money is ridiculous for the reasons stated above.

Good luck with your vote. If your ALPA vote fails, I hope you guys find a Union that will work for you.

 

[siucavflight]

UAL driver, thanks for the informative post. Just so you know XPOO and Skywhore will disagree with you.

 

[Shrek]

USCdickbag

thanks for another well-thought out and intelligent response. you're a class act

What a classy post.........

 

[XPOO]

If you ask me, SkyWest not being an ALPA carrier is what's draining ALPA's funds. All of those dues going to feed and entertain pilots they don't even represent. I can't see how collecting some $20 million a year from SkyWest pilots is going to push them further into the red.

 

[John Pennekamp]

If you ask me, SkyWest not being an ALPA carrier is what's draining ALPA's funds. All of those dues going to feed and entertain pilots they don't even represent. I can't see how collecting some $20 million a year from SkyWest pilots is going to push them further into the red.

It isn't. And trust me, the free ride is about to end for the SkyWest pilots, regardless of the vote outcome.

 

[USCtrojan]

It isn't. And trust me, the free ride is about to end for the SkyWest pilots, regardless of the vote outcome.

I welcome the SkyWest pilots (not SkyWhore), I hope that's true.

Trojan

 

[siucavflight]

If you ask me, SkyWest not being an ALPA carrier is what's draining ALPA's funds. All of those dues going to feed and entertain pilots they don't even represent. I can't see how collecting some $20 million a year from SkyWest pilots is going to push them further into the red.

But no one did ask you. You are not a pilot, some things are over your head, thats why you are a simple minded dispatcher. Not trying to offend you, you know the saying, those who can fly, those who cant dispatch.
The regionals do take more money then what they generate for ALPA.

 

[XPOO]

So you'll just go on stating non-supported facts as though they're true?

So, the Earth is flat. The Sun revolves around the Earth. Aliens exist. The moon landing was fake. Ghosts are real. The sky is falling. ALPA will lose money representing SkyWest pilots. Etc. Etc.

 

[John Pennekamp]

ALPA will lose money representing SkyWest pilots. Etc. Etc.

I'm sorry, XPOO, but you are wrong.

I have seen the balance pages. I have seen the budgets, both local and national. It is an UNDISPUTED FACT that the regionals cost ALPA more than the put in.

Stop arguing a position you can't back up with evidence. I have the evidence.

 

[FlySacto]

Why do some of you keep saying that ALPA only wants Skywest for its dues money? Skywest will be a net DRAIN on the ALPA treasury during its entire membership to the Association if it is voted in, and ALPA leadership knows that. If all ALPA cared about was the ALPA treasury, every regional in ALPA would be booted, and they certainly wouldn't be trying to recruit yet another one.

There was an attempt at United to start a new Union, true. I think they just sent out their final communication a week or two, as the drive has failed. It was created by a small group of pilots who were unhappy with ALPA. We have 1000's of pilots at ALPA and obviously some guys are not going to be happy with their representation, just like at any other airline. It was their right to seek a change in representation, it couldn't convince our pilots that it could do a better job than ALPA, and now it's done as far as I know. If there is a group of pilots at any airline who have a better solution than ALPA (despite its warts), I'm all ears.

There are plenty of reasons why a Skywest pilot might want to vote no for ALPA representation on their property, and that's fine. I personally think the good reasons far outweigh the bad reasons, but that's for the Skywest pilots to decide. However, to say that ALPA just wants Skywest for its dues money is ridiculous for the reasons stated above.

Good luck with your vote. If your ALPA vote fails, I hope you guys find a Union that will work for you.

Just got to visit the other night with a buddy who's spent ten years at United and we were talking about the ALPA drive at SkyWest. He had a good laugh when I commented that the regional guys argue that ALPA's just out for the guys at the majors. His arguement was that a lot of the mainline guys feel like ALPA is out representing those punk kids flying "Guppy Killers" not realizing that they are tanking their own career at a major airline. I did have to explain to him the "SJS" syndrome that permeates the ranks and file 24 y.o. spikey hair ipod F.O.

ALPA or SAPA? Where's my F'in ballot!!!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

So, care to explain United reasoning then? Or is it just beneficial to know why US Airways is doing so? I guess you're only a half the story kind of guy then.

Don't you have some internet porn to attend to? Not being a pilot you probably won't understand this. There is always a vocal minority group of selfish, self serving clowns who want whatever they don't have at the moment. But then you might understand, being myopic and kinda dense, will allow you to subscribe to half truths and lies as if they are the truth. Nice that you spend your day "dispatching" trolling FI.
Go back to your hole in the ground and leave the real issues to the PILOTS, who are the ones deciding. In other words FUUKK off!!
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The nice part about this drive is that in about 5 weeks all the talk about unions and skywest can finally stop one way or the other. It amazes me how much time people spend trying to convince others what is right for THEM and the industry, (and then threaten them with open ended questions about how it will effect a future position with other airlines).

I have an answer, it wont effect it at all. Remember who does the hiring at these jobs. Its not unionized line pilots thats for sure. Or maybe you will have to show your APLA card just to get into the interview.

I guess the line pilot who sits on the interview board has no say.
PBR

 

[siucavflight]

PBR, XPOO is just a want to be pilot, and that causes him to enjoy putting flame bait out there to start arguments, you see he has a lot of time between dispatching the next ORD-LAN flight. He is not in touch with the industry, and he is jealous of the fact that even though we complain about how much we make we are still making three times what he is. I cant really blame him, if I flunked out of flight school I would be anti pilots as well.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I don't care about ALPA one way or the other. But unions are businesses, plain and simple. They need money. When they see a pilot group as large as SkyWest all they see is dollar signs. SkyWest is also a business. I don't see how you can seperate the two. Both are out to make money. You say SkyWest wants to throw it's pilots under the bus to make a buck. Well who is to say ALPA wont do the same? They are BOTH businesses. ALPA uses your money to put ads in newspapers, makes keychains, lanyards, pamphlets, hot dogs, burgers and sodas for non-union members....and you don't see that a inappropriate use of company funds? Shouldn't the money you pay to the union go to things other than supplying food and accessories to non-union members?

Lessee,
2% of more pay= more dues. If thats what you really believe. What part of "crawl back into your little "dispatch" hole don't you understand.
PBR

 

[XPOO]

That must make you part of the "vocal minority group of selfish, self serving clowns who want" ALPA, then right? Because there's no way ALPA would ever be the minority. I mean SkyWest has never had a minority of the pilots vote for them. NEVER, right?

 

[WSurf]

No flame, honest question that is pertinent to this discussion:

As a PDT pilot, what is your "riff" with ALPA? Is it more with National, or AAA?

My riff was with ALPA National when Chris Beebe lied to us and said that if we signed our concessionary package we would get RJ's...... All the time he knew PSA was gonna get them and PDT, ALG were gonna get Jack Sh$t!!

Then during PSA attempt to get better rates on the CRJ 900 their union told them that PDT was secretly neg. with management to take the 900's away and they had better sign!!!!!

My point there was ALPA is suppose to be a union!! Where the hell was the unity then!!

Remember........ ALPA is a political machine!!!

 

[siucavflight]

How do you know what pilots want XPOO, the only contact you ever have with them are when they call and tell you to put more fuel on.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I wasn't directing any of my comments directly at you, I was simply addressing the whole forum. But...those shareholders that SkyWest is looking out for also happens to be the very pilots you are talking about as well as every employee in the ESPP plan. Those margins translate over to our bonuses. Sure, if you want $20 more a month now and will forgo $300 per bonus check to do so, management will hop all over that. Why would they want to pay you $300 every three months when they can just pay you $60 in three monthly installments? Your logic is flawed. And my math is overexagerated to drive home a point, I in no way intend that number to be realistic so don't come back bashing the numbers.

Again,
You sit and make predictions about things that you have no way of knowing. I guess the ASA T/A is driving the SKYW stock down, NOT. If you want more money you can organize and bargain with management like a grown up, not just take what scraps they want to scrape off of the plate after they are done with their meal.
PBR