Are You An Asa Pilot Or A Ramp Instructor?

[John Pennekamp]

Not that I even care about this issue but,,,,lets slip the shoe on the other foot for a second....What makes you always take the anti-management stance and lecture your fellow pilots? What are your credentials? and last I heard, you don't have to be an ASA lifer to make an OPINION valid.....its just his opinion. You're welcome to yours.

True you don't need to be an ASA lifer, but I've lived and breathed this company for over 15 years, and been a professional pilot for over 25. I am qualified to offer an opinion of how I think things should be based on that experience. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly in airline management. I know that they will always screw you to get theirs and they can't be trusted. My experience in the industry has shown me that. That's how I'm qualified.

 

[anon]

An excellent question has been asked.

Why can't they do these observations while on a simulator observer seat during recurrent flight training, a LOFT, or upgrade flight training.

On the other hand, I have no problem with the dispatchers riding my jumpseat. I usually learn as much from them as they do from me.

 

[ohplease!]

True you don't need to be an ASA lifer, but I've lived and breathed this company for over 15 years, and been a professional pilot for over 25. I am qualified to offer an opinion of how I think things should be based on that experience. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly in airline management. I know that they will always screw you to get theirs and they can't be trusted. My experience in the industry has shown me that. That's how I'm qualified.

news flash sport: it ain't just this industry.

 

[John Pennekamp]

news flash sport: it ain't just this industry.

News flash, AG, when you've been in this industry, or any other industry long enough to find your ass with both hands, then you can talk to ME like that. Idiot bigmouth.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Remember that this is someone not used to a cockpit and may have little or no flight experience, no knowledge of regulations, cockpit protocol, or any idea of what to expect.

Almost sounds like they're talking about some newhire FO with 500TT.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Can I ask you something? Why do you always take management's side and lecture your fellow pilots? What are your credentials to back up your opinion? Last I heard, you are an FO with less than 5 years experience. What makes your pro-management opinion so valid, junior?

Last you heard? I'm not sure who has been giving you this info, but you should really fire them. The only thing they got correct was that I am an FO and that is by choice for QOL. As stated over and over, I am neither pro union nor pro company. I simply don't see how this program is causing such a hugh uproar. Oh, thats right, in your view the company wants to put these spies in the flight deck to report back to the GO on you naughty pilots.

True I may not have 15+ years at ASA, and hopefully will not, But at least I am not so blinded by the left that you can even communicate with the right.

 

[ohplease!]

News flash, AG, when you've been in this industry, or any other industry long enough to find your ass with both hands, then you can talk to ME like that. Idiot bigmouth.

hmm. 8 yrs. ASA, 4.5 yrs. NWA, 3 yrs. Valujet/Airtran, 2 yrs. corp., 11 yrs. Coca-Cola...been there, done all that you're not as awesome as you think.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

.......

 

[ASARJMan]

hmm. 8 yrs. ASA, 4.5 yrs. NWA, 3 yrs. Valujet/Airtran, 2 yrs. corp., 11 yrs. Coca-Cola...been there, done all that you're not as awesome as you think.

..and you left some of those to come here? 11 years Coke, & u left that gig?

STRIKE ASA!

 

[ohplease!]

Compare dongs.

I'm sure I'd lose. I'm not nearly as big a d!ck as him.

 

[Blucher]

hmm. 8 yrs. ASA, 4.5 yrs. NWA, 3 yrs. Valujet/Airtran, 2 yrs. corp., 11 yrs. Coca-Cola...been there, done all that you're not as awesome as you think.

Thank you for giving us the foundations of your seriously flawed logic in most, if not all, of your arguments on this forum. If this is truly your history, and this is all within flight departments (in seat 0A or 0B), it's pretty clear your decision making skills are slightly lacking, to say the least. This resume reads like ASA management....."I was a a great company, then I went to a good company, then I helped drive that one out of business and now I'm here...I love ASA, but I wish I had my Delta/TWA retirement!"

-Blucher

 

[ohplease!]

Thank you for giving us the foundations of your seriously flawed logic in most, if not all, of your arguments on this forum. If this is truly your history, and this is all within flight departments (in seat 0A or 0B), it's pretty clear your decision making skills are slightly lacking, to say the least. This resume reads like ASA management....."I was a a great company, then I went to a good company, then I helped drive that one out of business and now I'm here...I love ASA, but I wish I had my Delta/TWA retirement!"

-Blucher

that makes no sense at all. Never said anything about being in flight departments each time.

 

[Blucher]

that makes no sense at all. Never said anything about being in flight departments each time.

Here's a little refresher for you: when a sentence starts with the word "If," it is then placed upon the reader to understand that there are conditions to the argument at hand. Please re-read my previous post, and then edit yours to have it make sense to the rest of us.
Also, in the future, when throwing one's "credentials" in someone else's face after they have told you how much time they've been flying the line, you might want to just stick to related jobs. Mopping up at the Coke plant doesn't really apply to what anyone on here was talking about prior to your making an ass of yourself (again).

-Blucher

 

[shamrock]

That's wrong on so many levels... but funny as hell. Glad she's back on the line where she belongs.

Some would argue that "back on line" is the last place she belongs.

 

[shamrock]

NOTHING THAT ASA DOES WILL EVER BE LOOKED AT IN A GOOD LIGHT BY ASA PILOTS...They (managment) have destroyed your trust.

Bingo.

 

[doug_or]

An excellent question has been asked.

Why can't they do these observations while on a simulator observer seat during recurrent flight training, a LOFT, or upgrade flight training.

On the other hand, I have no problem with the dispatchers riding my jumpseat. I usually learn as much from them as they do from me.

The most important stuff they could learn would be watching your interactions with the actual ramp- seeing how the flight gets delayed because they're playing wand toss instead of bringing you the paperwork, etc. There's not really much point in having them watch you do V1 cuts.

 

[WalterSobchak]

The most important stuff they could learn would be watching your interactions with the actual ramp- seeing how the flight gets delayed because they're playing wand toss instead of bringing you the paperwork, etc. There's not really much point in having them watch you do V1 cuts.

Now you just hold on one second here...wand toss is an important part of any ramprat's day.

You people who've never worked the ramp make me sick.

 

[asa rat]

Doubtful that the FAA has approved this program but its CERTAIN the DHS hasn't.... so we could have a security risk sitting on the jumpseat?

Granted it's not likely but it HAS happened. I wonder if an FFDO would appreciate wondering who is sitting behind him or her?

 

[Speedtape]

If the pilots of ASA are going to all have this attitude about the whole thing, then they just need to scratch the whole thing now. Either that, or the ASA pilots just need to get together and collectively deny every single one of these jumpseaters "in the interest of safety".

Listen, I was a ramp rat once...many of you probably were. And while there are some real pieces of crap on the ATL ramp and everywhere else...there are also some rampers that are genuinely interested in how others do their job and how the way the ramper does his job affects the pilot and vice versa. In theory, this isn't necessarily a bad idea...just bad timing and likely not very well thought out. Maybe a sim ride would make better sense.

I'll never forget my first jumpseat ride as a dispatcher. I got grilled by a fairly senior captain about how we calculated fuel load, fuel policies, and the such. He didn't like or agree with anything we did. Hell, what he (a guy 20+ years with company) thought dispatch was all about was way off.

After a few minutes of tension (he originally wasn't a huge fan of having a dispatcher in his jumpseat on the first early morning leg), I politely answered his questions and he answered all of mine. To make a long story short, we both came away with a renewed mutual respect for what the other does and since then, anytime a situation has arisen that we needed to put our heads together, his once condescending tone and "going against anything dispatch says just because it's coming from dispatch" attitude are gone...and I think that allows us to run a much smoother, much safer operation.

We can learn alot from each other...from the captain down to the lowly ramper. Does your management suck? Yeah, pretty much. But, maybe you should give this a shot before you tear it down as another tactic by "The Man" to hold you down.

1. Spend the money and give them proper training, and retraining, and they could do the job for which they were hired. Instead of the flight deck, they could stand in the Concourse window, at any given time, and learn everything they needed to know about the operation.

2. Part of the problem is that there is no supervision on the ramp. Maybe they should be where the rubber meets the road!

3. If they want to sit in the cockpit or are interested in what we do, let them spend the 70 to 100 G's that the rest of us spent and get the certificates and ratings that qualify them to sit up there.

4. In regard to your dispatch story, we were better off when we were 135 and controlled all those things ourself. Then you didn't have to worry about calling your dispatcher; either not getting an answer at all, or someone other than your dispatcher answering the phone to inform you the dispatcher has stepped away from the desk! We can do it better--it's our tush sitting in the seat!

5. We don't need social experiments. We need competent people hired that have work ethic, pride and a desire to do the job. Did I mention that they needed proper training and recurrent training?

6. We need a management that "Gets It!"

7. The industry analyst Boyd was right--1st, start by firehosing the 7th and 8th floor and getting rid of the reasons for the "Performance Minus" realities that we face! That's why we can make the claim, "We're Number 19!" Someone needs to sell the T-shirt!

8. In the world of DOT performance reporting, "ONE" is not the loneliest number, it's number "19!"

 

[shamrock]

That's why we can make the claim, "We're Number 19!" Someone needs to sell the T-shirt!

It was really great to see ASA mentioned by name in USA Today as the worst airline for on-time performance. Brian should be really proud, we certainly couldn't do it without his stellar leadership!