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Are You An Asa Pilot Or A Ramp Instructor?
- Thread starter av8tor4239
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John Pennekamp
I'd rather be here...
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
- Posts
- 3,895
Feel better? You should know by now that I really don't give a d@mn about your opinion, you management shill tool! Thanks for the rant.
EatinRamen
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2006
- Posts
- 252
What's so bad about having someone in the jumpseat on a low mins approach? I'm not looking at their face to know when I break out of the soup, I'm looking at the instruments and straight ahead. I block all other distractions out when I'm on approach. It's so funny to read what some of you chest thumpers write on here. Get over it...
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Yeah, until he says, so how much loger 'til we see a runway, or similar stupid remarks. Or even worst, on a bumpy appr to minimums he starts to barf! Guess the company expects us to clean the cockpit after that occurs too huh.
ASA Management: Pissing Off Pilots Every Day
HoserASA
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2005
- Posts
- 666
Cover RJman, as in "go over" what they do and mean. I'm not crazy about this program either. But, I can't wait to get Walt up there!
Hoser
While the plan has it's drawbacks, there are some silver linings also to be found.
While I have never been airline managment, I have had my neck on the line when it came to accountablity of people and their actions. I started at the bottom and worked my up. I recall wondering what the heck the upper echelon people where thinking when the made these stupid decisions.
As I progressed on and became more privvy to the workings of things at different levels, I became more aware of why people had to make these stupid decisions. Whether it was money relate or equiptment or people, there were generally rational reasons why people did what they did. It made easier to go back to my guys say, "Hey, the eggheads are at it again. But here's why it's happening like this...." (One of the reason the airline business is what it is, is total lack of communication between echelons) My folks were always productive because I kept them in the loop and explained why things happened as they did. That doesn't mean they liked it any better but at least they understood why it had to happen.
All that being said, this can an oppurtunity for the rest of this operation to learn about the BS we deal with and how frustrating it can be at times. Once someone sees the inner workings of the other guy's job and how he/ she makes decisions, suddenly it makes much more sense when they get what used to be unreasonable requests from the pilots.
The caveat is that these managers have to go back to their people and explain what is happeneing and why they get these unreasonable requests from time to time. If they do not do this, this effort will be for nothing.
While I have never been airline managment, I have had my neck on the line when it came to accountablity of people and their actions. I started at the bottom and worked my up. I recall wondering what the heck the upper echelon people where thinking when the made these stupid decisions.
As I progressed on and became more privvy to the workings of things at different levels, I became more aware of why people had to make these stupid decisions. Whether it was money relate or equiptment or people, there were generally rational reasons why people did what they did. It made easier to go back to my guys say, "Hey, the eggheads are at it again. But here's why it's happening like this...." (One of the reason the airline business is what it is, is total lack of communication between echelons) My folks were always productive because I kept them in the loop and explained why things happened as they did. That doesn't mean they liked it any better but at least they understood why it had to happen.
All that being said, this can an oppurtunity for the rest of this operation to learn about the BS we deal with and how frustrating it can be at times. Once someone sees the inner workings of the other guy's job and how he/ she makes decisions, suddenly it makes much more sense when they get what used to be unreasonable requests from the pilots.
The caveat is that these managers have to go back to their people and explain what is happeneing and why they get these unreasonable requests from time to time. If they do not do this, this effort will be for nothing.
Captain X
Who is John Galt?
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2002
- Posts
- 948
Of course SWA and Frontier have both done "A Day In My Shoes" type programs and have a far better "teamwork" attitude than a lot of othe airlines out there.
Personally, I think pilots should have to work a day or two on the ramp, a day or two in the cabin, and a day or two doing Customer Service things to see what else happens first hand. I think that those groups should get involved or (to the extent possible) or observe duties that other co-workers have to do (while not having to do their own duties) to learn the "other sides."
Maybe, just maybe, if we could get the elitist "I'm flight crew. I'm better and more important than you" chip off our shoulders and realize that we ARE NOT the glue that holds the fabric together, we might start getting somewhere.
The other day, the skipper and I had all our stuff done. The inflight crew was all buckled up in the back, the tug driver and the bag guys were all done. Ya' know what? We couldn't go anywhere. Why? Because the jetway was frozen (it was -18°) and wouldn't go in gear. Even if it wasn't faulty, we still would have NEEDED that jetway driver in order to make the operation run. In fact, we NEEDED the facilities mechanics who came and fixed the jetway in order to make the operation run.
Personally, I think pilots should have to work a day or two on the ramp, a day or two in the cabin, and a day or two doing Customer Service things to see what else happens first hand. I think that those groups should get involved or (to the extent possible) or observe duties that other co-workers have to do (while not having to do their own duties) to learn the "other sides."
Maybe, just maybe, if we could get the elitist "I'm flight crew. I'm better and more important than you" chip off our shoulders and realize that we ARE NOT the glue that holds the fabric together, we might start getting somewhere.
The other day, the skipper and I had all our stuff done. The inflight crew was all buckled up in the back, the tug driver and the bag guys were all done. Ya' know what? We couldn't go anywhere. Why? Because the jetway was frozen (it was -18°) and wouldn't go in gear. Even if it wasn't faulty, we still would have NEEDED that jetway driver in order to make the operation run. In fact, we NEEDED the facilities mechanics who came and fixed the jetway in order to make the operation run.
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Well said
probably not, but its worth a try. It might take just cleaning house down there to get years of piss poor management out and the corporate culture changed.
WalterSobchak
Am I wrong?
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2007
- Posts
- 1,436
If the pilots of ASA are going to all have this attitude about the whole thing, then they just need to scratch the whole thing now. Either that, or the ASA pilots just need to get together and collectively deny every single one of these jumpseaters "in the interest of safety".
Listen, I was a ramp rat once...many of you probably were. And while there are some real pieces of crap on the ATL ramp and everywhere else...there are also some rampers that are genuinely interested in how others do their job and how the way the ramper does his job affects the pilot and vice versa. In theory, this isn't necessarily a bad idea...just bad timing and likely not very well thought out. Maybe a sim ride would make better sense.
I'll never forget my first jumpseat ride as a dispatcher. I got grilled by a fairly senior captain about how we calculated fuel load, fuel policies, and the such. He didn't like or agree with anything we did. Hell, what he (a guy 20+ years with company) thought dispatch was all about was way off.
After a few minutes of tension (he originally wasn't a huge fan of having a dispatcher in his jumpseat on the first early morning leg), I politely answered his questions and he answered all of mine. To make a long story short, we both came away with a renewed mutual respect for what the other does and since then, anytime a situation has arisen that we needed to put our heads together, his once condescending tone and "going against anything dispatch says just because it's coming from dispatch" attitude are gone...and I think that allows us to run a much smoother, much safer operation.
We can learn alot from each other...from the captain down to the lowly ramper. Does your management suck? Yeah, pretty much. But, maybe you should give this a shot before you tear it down as another tactic by "The Man" to hold you down.
Listen, I was a ramp rat once...many of you probably were. And while there are some real pieces of crap on the ATL ramp and everywhere else...there are also some rampers that are genuinely interested in how others do their job and how the way the ramper does his job affects the pilot and vice versa. In theory, this isn't necessarily a bad idea...just bad timing and likely not very well thought out. Maybe a sim ride would make better sense.
I'll never forget my first jumpseat ride as a dispatcher. I got grilled by a fairly senior captain about how we calculated fuel load, fuel policies, and the such. He didn't like or agree with anything we did. Hell, what he (a guy 20+ years with company) thought dispatch was all about was way off.
After a few minutes of tension (he originally wasn't a huge fan of having a dispatcher in his jumpseat on the first early morning leg), I politely answered his questions and he answered all of mine. To make a long story short, we both came away with a renewed mutual respect for what the other does and since then, anytime a situation has arisen that we needed to put our heads together, his once condescending tone and "going against anything dispatch says just because it's coming from dispatch" attitude are gone...and I think that allows us to run a much smoother, much safer operation.
We can learn alot from each other...from the captain down to the lowly ramper. Does your management suck? Yeah, pretty much. But, maybe you should give this a shot before you tear it down as another tactic by "The Man" to hold you down.
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