PSA The TRUTH

[ex j-41]

Heard people coming out of interviews saying that the interviewers are mentioning that upgrade at PSA is 1.5 years.

When you are being interviewed they are looking for honest hard working skilled professionals. Wouldn't it be great if those on the other side of the table were that themselves?

Here is the truth:

We have F/O's that were hired in Aug 2001. That's over 5 years. How can anyone upgrade in a year and a half? Ain't gonna happen. Go to skywest.

You will sit reserve for up to 2 years. And reserve is about as much fun as going to the dentist a couple times a week.

You will work holidays, not get paid a dime extra for that.

You will stay in some of the worst hotels that airlines have ever stayed in.
The microhotel in PNS is half step above a trailer park. Your life will consist of living in industrial parks and paying $$$ for airport food.

Your first year pay will be $19,000 because you will be on reserve.
Your second year pay will be $25,000 because you will be on reserve.

If you come here, do your financial planning on those numbers. Could be higher if 90 f/o's quit and you get a line.

Even old school Captains are telling people that they will be better off going to Mesa. At least there you would upgrade.

It is a sad sad day that Mesa is a better place to be. Way to go T.K. Job Done!

 

[328dude]

Nice post, all true..

 

[Muppets]

Yeah, why do HR people lie to prospective employees? I've heard the interviewers at Charepubmerica are telling their applicants 1-1.5 year upgrade. "Now just sign this 24 month contract and you will be a E170 CA by this time next year." We should form a group of regional pilots who travel to flight schools and spread the word of Truth.

 

[Golden Falcon]

T.K. aka "the grinch" even looks like it too...

 

[BeCareful!]

Nice post, all true..

I'll second that. I've never been at a 121 carrier that treats its people worse than PSA.

 

[mamba20]

We are truely the bottom of the barrel in the industry. Those of you thinking of coming here need to seriously rethink those plans. The way our management treats people is atrocious. We have a worthless union whom we NEVER hear hide nor hair from unless it comes to the Teamsters and threatening to take away our elected officials free cell phones and golf vacations. Dont bother with this place. Oh, did I mention that the most senior people i.e. 10-15 years with the company only get 14 days off? At AWAC even on reserve you get a min of 12 days off.

 

[ex j-41]

It gets better........


F/O's need to bid an additional 5 lines for Feb because of IOE.
What airline in the world doesn't pay protect F/O's for IOE Bump? Oh PSA
And why do they need 7 lines total for IOE when there are only 7 people in training? Do they need a whole month to get people through? Just when you think things can't get worse...

 

[WSurf]

Jeez, and I thought we had it bad at PDT!!!

 

[skeezer]

What airline in the world doesn't pay protect F/O's for IOE Bump? Oh PSA

Careful now. The anger you have needs to be directed at those MEC/LEC officers in power at the time our contract was voted in (Toothe & CO.). The company has been laughing all the way to the bank since they voted that POS in.

Mamba, when you talk of "worthless union" I hope you are not speaking about our MEC. You have not been here long enough to know but our previously MEC seriously screwed the pooch on many issues. Those in power now have a very steep uphill climb to improve things because they must try and fix all the mistakes/laziness of the previous MEC and also deal with all the new issues (CEL, etc.). Also keep in mind that things like the CEL issue take time to deal with because the RLA makes the process long and arduous. This MEC is moving arbitration along faster that the old which at one point took something like 2 years for a case to make it to arbitration. Keep in mind that when those senior captains bitch an moan about the MEC and make you think they are worthless that some of those same captains voted in your pay rate and work rules.

Oh I almost forgot....Don't go to PSA. It is a terribly run airline.

Skeezer

 

[Weasil]

Careful now. The anger you have needs to be directed at those MEC/LEC officers in power at the time our contract was voted in (Toothe & CO.). The company has been laughing all the way to the bank since they voted that POS in.

Mamba, when you talk of "worthless union" I hope you are not speaking about our MEC. You have not been here long enough to know but our previously MEC seriously screwed the pooch on many issues. Those in power now have a very steep uphill climb to improve things because they must try and fix all the mistakes/laziness of the previous MEC and also deal with all the new issues (CEL, etc.). Also keep in mind that things like the CEL issue take time to deal with because the RLA makes the process long and arduous. This MEC is moving arbitration along faster that the old which at one point took something like 2 years for a case to make it to arbitration. Keep in mind that when those senior captains bitch an moan about the MEC and make you think they are worthless that some of those same captains voted in your pay rate and work rules.

Oh I almost forgot....Don't go to PSA. It is a terribly run airline.

Skeezer

Well said Skeezer! Good Luck to MS and the new guys on the MEC. I wouldn't wish that job on my worst enemy.

 

[328dude]

Careful now. The anger you have needs to be directed at those MEC/LEC officers in power at the time our contract was voted in (Toothe & CO.). The company has been laughing all the way to the bank since they voted that POS in.

Mamba, when you talk of "worthless union" I hope you are not speaking about our MEC. You have not been here long enough to know but our previously MEC seriously screwed the pooch on many issues. Those in power now have a very steep uphill climb to improve things because they must try and fix all the mistakes/laziness of the previous MEC and also deal with all the new issues (CEL, etc.). Also keep in mind that things like the CEL issue take time to deal with because the RLA makes the process long and arduous. This MEC is moving arbitration along faster that the old which at one point took something like 2 years for a case to make it to arbitration. Keep in mind that when those senior captains bitch an moan about the MEC and make you think they are worthless that some of those same captains voted in your pay rate and work rules.

Oh I almost forgot....Don't go to PSA. It is a terribly run airline.

Skeezer

Well said Skeezer. I agree with your remarks about not taking out the anger on the CURRENT MEC. I think MS is doing all he can to fix the past problems, but like you said, it will take time.

If you go to PSA for what ever reason, the quality of life will be low and the schedules horrible. However, the people there are great, feed up, but great. That is about the only good thing there which the company management continues to forget.

The management continues to forget who makes a large part of the company run and at times, seems to do whatever it can make things worse for the pilot group. They will not follow the contract in regards to junior man assignments and other issues.

 

[Gofish]

On reserve you will work 14 + hour duty days with long 3 hour sits. This is completely unproductive and keeps you from living your life and makes you miss your commute home to be with your family.

Our management deliberately constructs schedules that are not commutable and have few days off when they could easily do otherwise and make the crewmember's lives better. They do this because they want us to quit when our longevity increases cost them too much.

 

[ex j-41]

Careful now. The anger you have needs to be directed at those MEC/LEC officers in power at the time our contract was voted in (Toothe & CO.). The company has been laughing all the way to the bank since they voted that POS in.

I wasn't knocking any person at our Union. Now as for the previous guys...
The lack of integrity is disgusting. I can't believe someone with any common sense would sign that contract. And to top it off they are all so proud of it. Selling out your F/O's shouldn't be something to be proud of. I wish all J4J were slotted so more of the people that wrote the last contract would be affected.

 

[B190Captain]

On reserve you will work 14 + hour duty days with long 3 hour sits. This is completely unproductive and keeps you from living your life and makes you miss your commute home to be with your family.

Our management deliberately constructs schedules that are not commutable and have few days off when they could easily do otherwise and make the crewmember's lives better. They do this because they want us to quit when our longevity increases cost them too much.

14+ Hour days and 3 hour sits on reserve? Hmm, hard line holders get that too. As for 1.5 year upgrade, that is total crap.

 

[paulsalem]

I've been at PSA for only 3 months now but there are a couple half truths being told here. But most of the info seems correct. I don't mind it here. But again, I've only been here for 3 months.

In CLT you must bid an additional 5 lines for IOE. In DAY and TYS you must bid 1 additional line.

I don’t know how long the reserve period is. I’m moved up quite a bit this past month due to a constant flow of new hires. I believe that hiring just started back up this past fall; that would probably be the reason that people have been on reserve for so long. However who knows how long the hiring will continue.

A couple guys that were in my class (and only a few numbers senior to me) are already holding a line in TYS. (One guy in my class held a line right out of training). But TYS is a small base.

Upgrade: Well if you’re coming to PSA to get your 1,000 turbine PIC and move on, you can DEFINITLY do it faster elsewhere. With the J4Js not running back to mainline and the CELs comming it will be a long long time. I really feel bad for the senior F/Os here.

Note: I’m here just to build time, and I live about an hour from base, so I get to sit at home on reserve. So it is not as bad for me as those who have to commute.

 

[mamba20]

For those concerned I was NOT speaking about our CURRENT MEC.

 

[d328pilot]

Its sad but its as bad here as it has ever been here. The company is going out of their way to make our lives miserable. Flying guys 7 straight days with a 24 hour break, more that 3 CDOs in a row, etc. Anyone with 3 years or left would be better off leaving for another company. No way should anyone come and start here. Pay sucks, hotel sucks, schedules suck, no upgrade opportunities.........Run away

 

[mamba20]

You know the sadest part is that all we are really doing is bitching about it on here. WE as a group are still spending all our time and energy fighting each other rather then trying to solve these problems. I think we'd get a lot further taking some real action. Me included.

 

[svcta]

You know the sadest part is that all we are really doing is bitching about it on here. WE as a group are still spending all our time and energy fighting each other rather then trying to solve these problems. I think we'd get a lot further taking some real action. Me included.

I've been staying out of this one, but this is dead on. I was always so frustrated with people there. EVERYONE bitches and NOONE will make the first move. Everybody just schleps around that place waiting on scheduling to come through with that next bid package when everything will be better, waiting on Cindy, or whoever it was, to build some commutable lines, blah blah blah.

I remember my last recurrent class, JR came in and blew a bunch of crap all over us and we(as a group) believed all of it except for the parts that he snuck in like : "no growth for the next year at least".

It's like we all knew that would be the only truth he muttered, but it's easier on the soul to hope for whatever crap they fed us, no matter how unlikely.

Wake up, guys at PSA. It's not getting better. Why would they improve anything? Your pilot group will and has taken everything they've hurled at you. Sorry to be so harsh, but damn if it isn't true. I really liked almost everyone I flew with at PSA, but sometimes I want to grab a hold of you and shake you like a swedish nanny.

 

[ex j-41]

You know the sadest part is that all we are really doing is bitching about it on here. WE as a group are still spending all our time and energy fighting each other rather then trying to solve these problems. I think we'd get a lot further taking some real action. Me included.

Agreed...
But when i talk about options they all say "What is that going to do". People have lost all hope. The light at the end of the tunnel is another job!

 

[Gofish]

I am sure the 60+ sick calls per day over the holidays got Tempe's attention. There were many cancellations due to lack of FAs and FOs. I worked and it was miserable. This is what happens when employees are on the wrong side of the balance sheet and treated as liabilities rather than assets.

 

[mamba20]

I am sure the 60+ sick calls per day over the holidays got Tempe's attention. There were many cancellations due to lack of FAs and FOs. I worked and it was miserable. This is what happens when employees are on the wrong side of the balance sheet and treated as liabilities rather than assets.[/quote

I wish that was the case, but it probably went on the record as more negative action from this pilot group.

Mr. Cowbell up there is right, this pilot group needs to take its head out of its ass and start being proactive about having our leaders and MEC make some changes NOW.

 

[OPECJet]

So when are you guys picketing in DAY? When are you guys going to pressure your MEC into making management look like the baboons they are?

Let me know. I'll be there when you do it! I'll bring other PDT pilots with me.

 

[ex j-41]

Info picketing is too softcore. We need to hire a big time N.Y. Lawyer that knows the RLA and lets labor take back this profession. We need legal work action. At least Mesa had the balls to stop using their cell phones for a couple of weeks. Make scheduling call the crew room or page us in the Airport. My phone is now off.....is yours?

 

[mamba20]

You dont have to answer your cell phone or even return their calls if they leave you a message. Regardless if they have the number or not. I flew with a guy once that refused to use his cell phone for anything related to company business. Even once in OAJ early in the morning when we needed to talk to flight service to get a clearance. He was happier to run outside in the pouring rain at 4:45 am to use the one in the terminal rather then sit in the nice warmed up and dry airplane. I think thats pushing it a little, the only person your screwing there is yourself. These lame little games and ways that people come up with to combat the company are a joke. All it does it make you look like an a$$hole. Legal, union approved and initiated work actions are the ONLY way to go.

 

[skydork]

I've been at PSA for only 3 months now but there are a couple half truths being told here. But most of the info seems correct. I don't mind it here. But again, I've only been here for 3 months.

In CLT you must bid an additional 5 lines for IOE. In DAY and TYS you must bid 1 additional line.

I don’t know how long the reserve period is. I’m moved up quite a bit this past month due to a constant flow of new hires. I believe that hiring just started back up this past fall; that would probably be the reason that people have been on reserve for so long. However who knows how long the hiring will continue.

A couple guys that were in my class (and only a few numbers senior to me) are already holding a line in TYS. (One guy in my class held a line right out of training). But TYS is a small base.

Upgrade: Well if you’re coming to PSA to get your 1,000 turbine PIC and move on, you can DEFINITLY do it faster elsewhere. With the J4Js not running back to mainline and the CELs comming it will be a long long time. I really feel bad for the senior F/Os here.

Note: I’m here just to build time, and I live about an hour from base, so I get to sit at home on reserve. So it is not as bad for me as those who have to commute.

Unfortunately for you the hiring is only for attrition, not growth. You are moving up slowly and getting closer to a line because FO's are quitting in droves. Get your time up for whatever you're buliding it for and get out before you get too senior to leave.

For people looking to come to PSA, don't do it. There are plenty of places with better pay, work rules, QOL, scheduling, mgt, etc. Don't come here unless things turn around (growth, J4J recalls or something)

 

[ex j-41]

Legal, union approved and initiated work actions are the ONLY way to go.

But i believe Info Picketing is a waste of time and money. Pax only care about 1 thing, the ticket price. And when they get on the airplane they care only about service. US telling them that we are "Still Safe, Still Focused" is crap. Just a waste of paper. To them this says "Everything is great, carry on".
We need big signs that say "Your pilot makes $25k/yr, feel safe?" or "Had only 6 hrs sleep last night", even better "Been working 14 hrs....still want to fly?" or "I don't do approach briefings...too busy figuring out how i am going to make my car payment"

 

[mamba20]

On the plus side I hear they are going to offer the 900's again. Now where did I put that jar of lube? Ah, there it is! The empty container collecting dust from the last time they offered them to us.

 

[B190Captain]

On the plus side I hear they are going to offer the 900's again. Now where did I put that jar of lube? Ah, there it is! The empty container collecting dust from the last time they offered them to us.

Is this a reliable source or just farts in the wind?

 

[mamba20]

Is this a reliable source or just farts in the wind?

In this business is there a difference?