AA may not merge with anyone?

[B6Driver]

I knew I shouldn't have posted this. Hey JB guys, you think you are the only ones that get ragged on, guess again..


AAflyer

The big difference is that you guys for the most part deserve it.
Not you AAflyer per say but the other clown "isl2min's"

 

[AAflyer]

"Let's forget this myth that if they merge that American will have an economic imperative to merge as well. This [a Delta-US Airways merger] will make the combined entities weaker, not stronger," Mr. Boyd said.

"Therefore, the first thing American should do is encourage them to merge. It will give them a very confused, disoriented competitor. From that perspective it's good," he said. "From the downside, it will also give these clowns on Wall Street more incentive to try and do merger deals."



Boyd is quirky, but he got this one right.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I agree GL, I would much rather watch the train wreck from the stands.
My own personal feeling on this. We have had a good economy the past 4 years, we will head into a down turn soon. Why is that when airlines like to merge? I think a merger or aquisition of that magnitude could be deadly.

While they are busy trying to merge for 2-3 years, the other airlines can focus on running an airline.

AAflyer

 

[B6Driver]

That statement is absolute conjecture and assumes that AA would've had to react exactly the same way it did if AMR hadn't purchased twa. The billions in twa debt (not to mention the millions in DIP financing) and the useless STL hub caused a very substantial drain on the AA bottom line, thus forcing drastic measures. My conjectural statement is this: Had Carty not lept into this ill-advised venture, AA would've been in better financial shape and thus able to weather the post-9/11 downturn with much a much smaller percentage of shrinkage. The purchase of twa was the most monumentally unfortunate event in the 75 history of American Airlines...[/quote]

And AA hiring you was a brilliant move?

 

[TV9Driver]

ils2mins......you are a friggin' idiot.

For some reason, some of you native AA guys (not all) continue to blame the acquisition of TWA as the event that triggered all of AA's current problems. HAVE YOU COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN 9/11?!?!? If I remember right, AA was still HIRING after they acquired TWA.

The FURLOUGHING didn't start till after 9/11, don't you remember? - oh that's right, you weren't the one getting furloughed, it was just us lowly "Kmart pilots" at TWA.

 

[ils2minimums]

The big difference is that you guys for the most part deserve it.
Not you AAflyer per say but the other clown "isl2min's"

buhzzzzziiiinnnnnngggggg! you really got me there....

You guys f'ing amaze me... You sit there and judge 9000 guys by the actions of the union and a couple of people who post on a message board. I don't come here and kiss the kiesters of twa pilots like a couple of our guys do, so I'm a clown. I can live with that...

 

[AA717driver]

Saint Louis is still sucking on the AMR bottom line like a piglet on the hind tit.

That is not true. STL is, according to the Chief Pilot (the Native Chief Pilot), the most profitible hub in AA's network. No doubt it's based on a per passenger or per flight basis. But it may be straight up dollars. It had been number two behind DFW.

As for how many jobs AA would have lost absent the TWA acquisition: How many 727's would AA be operating today? How many F100's? How many of each type did they have on 9/10?

How many 737's were on order and could have been acquired in the past three years?

AAflyer--Just like the TWA/Ozark feud continues to this day, the AA/TWA $h!t-slinging will last a long time. This is new to AA because there weren't that many Reno guys and AirCal got a great deal (REALLY great). TC

 

[ils2minimums]

ils2mins......you are a friggin' idiot.

For some reason, some of you native AA guys (not all) continue to blame the acquisition of TWA as the event that triggered all of AA's current problems. HAVE YOU COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN 9/11?!?!? If I remember right, AA was still HIRING after they acquired TWA.

The FURLOUGHING didn't start till after 9/11, don't you remember? - oh that's right, you weren't the one getting furloughed, it was just us lowly "Kmart pilots" at TWA.

Not once have I said twa was the event that triggered aa's current problems. I have simply responded to the claim that +/- 2000 "native" pilots owe their jobs to furloughed twa pilots. I clearly stated that 9/11 would've had a negative effect on AA. It is my opininon however, that the negative effect was exacerbated by the newly acquired debt, the uncommon aircraft, and the THIRD mid-continent hub AA got from twa...

Yeah, I remember 9/11... On that day I was flying a jet for AMERICAN AIRLINES... An american airlines with over 700 airplanes and 12,000 "native" pilots...

 

[AAflyer]

That is not true. STL is, according to the Chief Pilot (the Native Chief Pilot), the most profitible hub in AA's network. No doubt it's based on a per passenger or per flight basis. But it may be straight up dollars. It had been number two behind DFW.

As for how many jobs AA would have lost absent the TWA acquisition: How many 727's would AA be operating today? How many F100's? How many of each type did they have on 9/10?

How many 737's were on order and could have been acquired in the past three years?

AAflyer--Just like the TWA/Ozark feud continues to this day, the AA/TWA $h!t-slinging will last a long time. This is new to AA because there weren't that many Reno guys and AirCal got a great deal (REALLY great). TC

I understand TC....

ILS2Mins, We have had a few HI6s put out. In all truthfullness STL made money this pat summer. If not mistaken STL alone made over 8million (profit) just over the summer. Loads are very high, and unlike many think we do not DH a bunch of crews out of STL to ORD or DFW. If not mistaken there is one crew that flies down to DFW to fly the HNL trip. However if you look at the crew allocations for the 777 flying. They DH FOs and FBs all over the system to fly certain flights out of certain bases.

Regards,

AAflyer

 

[krewmeel]

For the record AMR bought TWA for about $500 million. Quite a bargain for a company with 3 hubs, 190 airplanes (all newer than the ones in the American fleet), gates, route authority and 2500 trained pilots. AMR did not have to shoulder TWA's debt load because it put the company into chapter 11 and became it's Debtor in Possession Financier. This slick trick got rid of most of TWA's considerable financial burdens including a cash sucking agreement with former CEO, alias corporate raider, Carl Ichan. Would TWA have survived after 911 without the buyout.....I don't know. I do know that this idea that TWA dragged down AMR due it's aquisition cost is false. I also know that quite a few "natives" (mostly Reno Air guys, actually) were saved from the street due to the TWA pilots being used as cannon fodder in the most unfair pilot seniority integration in airline history.

 

[ils2minimums]

and unlike many think we do not DH a bunch of crews out of STL to ORD or DFW. If not mistaken there is one crew that flies down to DFW to fly the HNL trip. However if you look at the crew allocations for the 777 flying. They DH FOs and FBs all over the system to fly certain flights out of certain bases.

Regards,

AAflyer

AAflyer,
I don't want this to turn into something worse than it already is. I, like you, am sick of AA threads turning into a bashing by a bunch of anonymous cowards.

I will always defer to gentleman's rules and will usually take any disagreement with a fellow AA pilot to PM's rather than a public message board. However, with regard to the above two statements: first, yes, AA does indeed DHD 777 pilots to cover trips in other bases, but NONE of those DHD's are due to an agreement such as Supp. CC and they don't cost the company nearly as much as the full-scale DHD's of entire crews to cover out-of-base flying. The two things, while seeming similar, are diametrically different...

With regard to your assertion that we don't DHD pilots from STL to ORD and DFW to fly their sequences, please go take a look at the DEC allocation sheet for SLT 767 D. You will find that the following sequences actually begin, end, or both with a scheduled DHD to/from DFW and ORD:

SEQ's: 30097, 30098, 30099, 30100, 30101, 30103, 30105, 30106, 30109, 30112, 30113, 30115, 30116, 30118, 30120, 30121, 30123, 30124, 30125, 30127, 30129, 30130, 30131, 30133, 30134, 30136, 30138, 30139, 30142, 30143, 30145, 30151, and 30152.

Also, while you're looking at that, take a gander at the STL S80 D allocations and look at how many of the sequences leave STL and spend the next 3-4 days bouncing in and out of ORD and DFW, never touching STL until the last leg home...

You are correct about the HNL flights. The entire SLT 767 I bidsheet consists of nothing but DHD's to DFW to cover the HNL flight and then a return DHD to STL from DFW...

 

[Draginass]

AA - TWA. Who cares. I'm tired of listening to this tripe. TWA's gone. AA's still here, at least for now.

 

[AA717driver]

Sorry, Dragin, more tripe...

ils2--I understand about the 767/I pairings. What I don't understand is why AA persists in keeping an international base in STL. There isn't anything in CC (that I can find) that requires this.

I figure they think that if it stirs the pot (AA v. TWA) then it's a good thing even if it costs money. TC

 

[ils2minimums]

I figure they think that if it stirs the pot (AA v. TWA) then it's a good thing even if it costs money. TC

I couldn't agree more, TC.

Along those same lines, I truly believe this whole China debacle is the work of AMR mgmt pitting employee groups against each other...

Quick and dirty about what I mean:

- AMR bids for China
- APA issues its list of "demands" including one which riles flight attendants
- (it's my belief that this is where AMR finds out they're not getting route) so:
- AMR dismisses the demands out-of-hand but not before F/A's revolt
- AMR then "amends" request to fly DFW-ORD-PEK due to "pilot's contract"
- Now when official word comes that AA doesn't get the route, AMR mgmt can blame the pilots publicly and turn ALL employee groups against us once again... All the while the "leadership" at APA is chasing windmills...

 

[JAM-BRO]

American may stay above the fray

Talk of airline mergers is flying, but American may sit this one out

quote]


GOOD!!!!!!!
I don't want to be stapled!!!!!!!1

 

[shroomwell]

I am starting a pool. When will the AA TWA bickering stop? First bet is on 10 years from now, it goes all the way to 30 years. Who's in?