Fedex plane runs off runway at ORD

[HA25]

One more thing V70T5.....tell me honestly.....you have NEVER cheated on anyone?

I can tell you honestly that after leaving the Army in 1993 I had no sexual relations with anyone until meeting my wife in 1996 and while I'm tempted, I've never even flirted.

That said, it's not about the sex.. it's about the type of person that would take the risks she took with the commanders and USAF's eyes on her. Remember, she was the poster child for women in USAF aviation and she was not really someone that can lay low. She took risks that I would NEVER have taken with my career, and that shows a character flow that I don't want to see in the left seat of an MD-11 one day (freight or otherwise) in the back.

I guess I'm old school (why I picked the caveman avatar), but then looking at this forum with all of the avatars of women's asses, and the way guys drool at the prospects of women's tits they've not even seen (you), much less having one in the cockpit with them so they can stare at her tits makes me wonder what ever happened to our values? Dignity for women, and marriage?

Sure we can get excited about the other sex, but there are limits, and if you're single they're not the same as if you're married. More over, if you're an member of the armed forces, you are subject to a lot of rules (like the FARs) that while onerous, must be followed.

 

[HA25]

Oh Capt., you sound like my type of woman. I bet we could have some real fun on the layover. In fact, I'll probably give you the best 3 minutes of your life.

But I need to know. Do you like to spoon? Because if so, I'm not into that. I prefer to just roll over and fall asleep when I'm done.

Point made..

 

[capt. megadeth]

I can tell you honestly that after leaving the Army in 1993 I had no sexual relations with anyone until meeting my wife in 1996 and while I'm tempted, I've never even flirted.

That said, it's not about the sex.. it's about the type of person that would take the risks she took with the commanders and USAF's eyes on her. Remember, she was the poster child for women in USAF aviation and she was not really someone that can lay low. She took risks that I would NEVER have taken with my career, and that shows a character flow that I don't want to see in the left seat of an MD-11 one day (freight or otherwise) in the back.

I guess I'm old school (why I picked the caveman avatar), but then looking at this forum with all of the avatars of women's asses, and the way guys drool at the prospects of women's tits they've not even seen (you), much less having one in the cockpit with them so they can stare at her tits makes me wonder what ever happened to our values? Dignity for women, and marriage?

Sure we can get excited about the other sex, but there are limits, and if you're single they're not the same as if you're married. More over, if you're an member of the armed forces, you are subject to a lot of rules (like the FARs) that while onerous, must be followed.

Your wife should consider herself lucky being with someone who doesn't cheat. I don't cheat either and unfortunately, I feel that you and I are in the minority. I agree with the rest of your post BTW. I don't agree with disobeying orders in the service but I still don't think it's anyone's business who one sleeps with.

BTW, thanks for sticking up for me (somewhat) on the SWA thread.

 

[RP 04]

It's not cheating unless you get caught...

 

[HA25]

BTW, thanks for sticking up for me (somewhat) on the SWA thread.

no problem, I just remember when this place was a bit more civil. It's lame especially when people address a woman they don't even know as a "hag".

Fly safe..

 

[Falconjet]

Mega: You might want to take a look at the UCMJ sometime. It is pretty specific about who's business it is when someone in the service commits adultery.

That is something alot of people don't understand about the sacrifices of serving in the military. The UCMJ is not some guideline that you follow if its convenient or you agree with it. You obey it or suffer the consquenses, whether you are male or female.

Sleeping with a subordinate's spouse is about the lowest thing you can do in the military, so yeah it is a lot of people's business when that happens. It is a federal crime to do so when you are married and in the service.

That being said, the lady has paid the price for her indiscretions, and was discharged from the service under less than honorable conditions. If UPS wants to hire her despite that it is their right.

I do think though that it would be tough to argue that they don't look the other way on such things more than when they are looking for someone other than white males to hire, as stigma free white males are easier to find. Again, I'm not saying its right or wrong, but to discount the possibility is to ignore reality.

Back to the real topic, we haven't had an FCIF or anything on this incident so I don't think there was too much to it. When there is a bonafide accident or incident we usually get an FCIF fairly quickly at least telling us that it happened.

FJ

 

[Occam's Razor]

It's not cheating unless you get caught...

Um...yes it is.

If you stand up in front of your family and most of your friends and make a promise, in the form of marriage vows...you oughta keep it. If you can't, break it off.

By the same token, if you take an oath of office, you oughta stick to it. If you can't...bail.

If your commanding officer gives you specific instructions, and you don't like 'em...you should make it clear then and there.

Says it right on the paper: "...special trust and confidence..."

 

[stonewall]

Um...yes it is.

If you stand up in front of your family and most of your friends and make a promise, in the form of marriage vows...you oughta keep it. If you can't, break it off.

By the same token, if you take an oath of office, you oughta stick to it. If you can't...bail.

If your commanding officer gives you specific instructions, and you don't like 'em...you should make it clear then and there.

Says it right on the paper: "...special trust and confidence..."

Word.

 

[Purpledog]

Were we ever permitted to see the Enders Safety Study? I'm sure since the pilots were banned from seeing it, the "F" word was all over it.

 

[JimNtexas]

I can name 3 military people who were in my units who were run out of the service for less than what that B-52 girl and one of our former Presidents did. They are:

Captain A: Given an Article 15 and forced to resign for sleeping with a female airman (He was married).

Major H: Had two female airmen working for him at HQ ESC. Campaigned for a BZ promotion and airman of the century for the one he was sleeping with. The other one complained. His household goods were on the way to Washington where he had a Pentagon assignment pending. Assignment canceled, forced to resign at the 15 year point.

Lt General J: Caught with his own Monica in the form of a married female NCO on his immediate staff. Reduced one grade and forced to retire.

One that wasn't sexual, but interesting. Captain K, a prior enlisted EWO who was greatly liked by our squadron commander. K decided he was too busy to atttend the required annual instrument ground school, so he intercepted the attendance roster and added his name to the bottom. Forced to resign with 16 years of service. K then joined a west coast reserve C-141 squadron as a navigator. His crew elected to fly their C-141 into New Orleans, where they used the goverment bread van they took with them to drive to a sporting event. People noticed, there was press coverage and an investigation. It turned out that K had faked training recording to claim that he was qualified for air drops when he wasn't. I'm pretty sure he was kicked out of the reserve.

 

[HA25]

glad to see (gives me hope) that I am indeed not alone in my views..

Amazing to see how coarse our culture has gotten...

 

[Tejas-Jet]

And they even hire people with less than honorable discharges from the Airforce I'm finding out..

OK...let's not make one or two people out to be an epidemic.

Folks do make mistakes in their youth. Sometimes as they mature, they can see how and why they made that mistake and they correct that behavior....and they take the time to discuss it in an interview and show how they learned from that mistake.

I know of people that have crashed an airplane that fly for major arilines today....they explained what happened...and that explaination was acccepted.

Have you never made a mistake in judgement?

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I had an honorable discharge, she didn't and clearly her gender play a big role in her getting this job more so than any AirForce background.

Anddddd.....she got hired and...you didn't? Look, if oyu weren't sitting in on that interview, or in the decision phase, then you really don't know how or why she was hired. Ever think it might have been because how she presented herself in the interview?

I guess in your world, every single woman and minority that interviews gets hired? Got new for you, sport....it doesn't happen.

Now I guess, you think that ALL the ones who get turned down file lawsuits.

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Sorry if I come off as a bit of a pre-madona on this, but I sadly suffer from something called "a set of absolutes" that I live by.

Geez...So I guess that forgiveness is not part of your "absolutes" that you live by. Seeing a person make positive changes in their lives is not something you ever want to see or would even tolerate...

OK....I'm getting the picture. WWJD?

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

that there are 100 applicants for every job in our industry, and they hired her anyway since clearly she was a "she".

But maybe you dont' care if people have any moral fiber that you fly with, my fault.

How do you know that she was hired becasue she was a "she"? I ask again, were you part of the interview and /or decision process? If not, then you really don't know how/why she was hired.

And concerning the "moral fiber" that you speak of....so if you fly with a pilot that you know "fools around"....you gonna get off the trip?

Again, people make mistakes, some make the effort to correct those mistakes, and I for one, am thrilled to see this woman flying where she is now...because it tells me that she did indeed correct her behavior.

Tejas

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I can tell you honestly that after leaving the Army in 1993 I had no sexual relations with anyone .

Not even with yourself ??? ...And you're an Army guy??? You should've said that from the beginning.....now I'm starting to understand. Did you also wear one of those funny braided ropes on your khaki uniform?

How'd you like those MRE's? I heard that even the Kurds in 1991 couldn't stand eating the MRE's.

Army....I'm starting to get the picture now....

Tejas

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

It's lame especially when people address a woman they don't even know as a "hag".

But its OK for her to call a guy she doesn't know a "prik".

Whatever.

 

[AC560]

I just don't see how it's anyone's business who someone sleeps with in the first place.

If you were to cheat on your spouse and I caught you, what do you think I could get you to do in order to keep that information quiet. If you were responsible for nuclear ordinance, national secrets, etc. can you see where the concern might exist?

If you promise before your spouse, family, and God to be faithful and you break that vow; should somebody not be concerned about your ability to keep other secrets or vows?

I have no opinion on whether the lady in question should have gotten a job or not. I do think there are good reasons behind the rules the military has in most cases, if you can't serve with honor and distinction; don't serve at all.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Your wife should consider herself lucky being with someone who doesn't cheat. I don't cheat either and unfortunately, I feel that you and I are in the minority. I agree with the rest of your post BTW. I don't agree with disobeying orders in the service but I still don't think it's anyone's business who one sleeps with.

BTW, thanks for sticking up for me (somewhat) on the SWA thread.

Capt,
In addition to the post about the UCMJ regulations from Falconjet (post #86), in the military it is very much the business of the chain of command who you are sleeping with. In the most basic example:

An Ops boss not letting a female pilot (who he is treating to a tube steak dinner every night) fly a specific mission because of the risks involved, but chooses some other pilot, thus ensuring his bishop gets polished for at least one more night.

That is why bosses are not allowed to sleep with subordinates in the military.

Now that we cleared that up... I didn't know you could say tits and titties on flightinfo.com... hehehe... titties... hehehehe

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I enjoy a good "tar and feather" FI session as much as the next guy but years ago I was aware of literally a dozen similar situations in the USAF involving guys porking other dudes' wives (subordinates, superiors ... it ran the spectrum) and each one of these guys were eventually promoted and given desirable follow-on assignments (fighters ... what have you). So as much as I'd enjoy ganging on to this little pile of moral indignation I just can't in good conscience.

I say let's get our moral compasses realigned and talk about beer and hooters like civil airline pilots! Mega in stockings! (I heard she's smokin' AND smart!)

BBB