Netjets or Flexjets?

[gunfyter]

Those 400XP owners are very happy when they ride on the Falcon.

 

[miles otoole]

NJA begged to buy the 300??? NOT!! While is it a good jet and I would love to get my hands on one, the fact remains that; You need a history lesson!!!! This didn't happen.

True about the 400 to Falcon free upgrade. Sure the bean counters love it.

 

[Freight Jock]

Have all the pride you want but how do you know what the NetJets service is like? In fact doesn't Flexjet have a negative churn rate and NetJets a positive one. Wouldn't that mean Flex is loosing owners?

Why do you work there. Same reason pilots work at Mesa. Because they pay you. And Indy went out of buisness.

Flex picked up 18 new owners as of the end of the second quarter. This is public information that you can find on Bombardier's website. Before you accuse FJ for having a negative churn rate, you should read up. Bombardier is a great place to be. I worked for the company previously in a non-flying capacity. I left the company to build flight time and now I'm back. I here NetJets is great too. Too each, his own.

 

[haulingthemail]

Are you typed at Flexjet when you go through inital class?

 

[CL300Pilot]

Yes....

Are you typed at Flexjet when you go through inital class?

All pilots are typed in their aircraft that they are assigned to. They also do not do the SIC type. It is a PIC type. I agree with what everyone else is saying. Flex is a great company to work for, and I am sure that Netjets is too. You just have to decide which company best suits what you want. You see plenty here and you could go to www.hoovers.com and do a search on both companies to check on their financial status as well. I don't believe you can go wrong at either company. Netjets will most likely always be the biggest fractional provider out there, unless something really crazy happens. Good luck in your pursuit and hope to see you at Flex.

 

[haulingthemail]

I'd like to go to FlexJet, since I live in DFW already. I just can't seem to get that much needed interview.

So I guess it'll be how ever calls first, Net or Flex.

 

[NJA Capt]

Before you accuse FJ for having a negative churn rate, you should read up.

I know its old but its the first one I searched...

Aviation Week & Space Technology
10/06/2003, page 63

Bombardier Inc.'s Flexjet lost 1.74 shareholders for every one it gained in the first eight months of the year. Raytheon Aircraft's Flight Options is doing only slightly better, with a churn rate of 0.85, which means it is losing nearly one shareholder for every one that it gains. NetJets, the 800-lb. gorilla among fractional ownership providers, has the highest retention rate, with a below-average churn rate of 0.40

 

[FraxJockey]

"churn" rate

I know its old but its the first one I searched...

Aviation Week & Space Technology
10/06/2003, page 63

Bombardier Inc.'s Flexjet lost 1.74 shareholders for every one it gained in the first eight months of the year. Raytheon Aircraft's Flight Options is doing only slightly better, with a churn rate of 0.85, which means it is losing nearly one shareholder for every one that it gains. NetJets, the 800-lb. gorilla among fractional ownership providers, has the highest retention rate, with a below-average churn rate of 0.40

Problem with the churn rate is that we have a lot of owners upgrade to a different aircraft ie. LR60 to CL300. Furthermore, since Flex is a marketing tool, many of the owners we lose are actually buying whole aircrat. None of these things are really taken into account in the "Churn" rate. I like it here and like many others say, there are pluses and minuses to both. Plus since you found a stat dated '03 this really doesn't take into account our very sudden growth due to the Challenger 300.

Frax

 

[gunfyter]

Stuff like this depends on decisions made by Managements not pilots. Why are we fighting about it?

 

[CA1900]

Wow, a comparison between two companies degenerates into a pissing contest on Flightinfo. Who could have predicted it? uke:

 

[cosmotheassman]

It really just boils down to, "my doesn't stink and yours does". To me, NJ pilots were a bunch of whiners before the contract and, are still a bunch of whiners after the contract. Here's a tissue....

 

[netjetwife]

Cosmo, perhaps your post was intended as friendly ribbing and just needs a laughing face added to it? Or it could be that your posting style matches your name? In either case, I'd like to point out that those who make legitimate complaints about being overworked/underpaid are definitely not whiners and the pilots of NJA certainly didn't get a fair/good contract by whining...

In all fairness, one cannot judge an entire group numbering well over 2,000 by posts here or remarks heard in FBOs. We can, however, rely on a recent professional survey of the NJ pilot group which showed the vast majority are satisfied with conditions there. In fact, things are currently going so well that the core group of union volunteers and leaders are worried about complacency. Luckily, the NJ pilots have leaders who know that winning new ground is only half the battle; true progress is measured by your ability to build success on what you previously accomplished.

If justified points from frac pilots discussing the problems of low pay, inadequate working conditions, and poor QOL factors is to be defined as "whining", I strongly encourage all those adversely affected to set up a howl that will bring attention to your cause. It is true that the raw deal many frac pilots are getting is without a doubt--a crying shame.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

 

[hammer2]

Let me tell you about Net Jets, They are nothing but>>>>>>>> Crap I have to go flying!

 

[higgy]

It really just boils down to, "my doesn't stink and yours does". To me, NJ pilots were a bunch of whiners before the contract and, are still a bunch of whiners after the contract. Here's a tissue....

At least we have a contract. Sounds like ur a little jealous??? Don't feel bad I would be jealous too if I were you. Keep your tissiue. Somthing tells me you need it more that I do.

 

[RNObased]

It really just boils down to, "my doesn't stink and yours does". To me, NJ pilots were a bunch of whiners before the contract and, are still a bunch of whiners after the contract. Here's a tissue....

Cosmo,
It boils down to you being a ............ Before and after our contract. Here's a clue.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Keep making my point for me....keep the posts coming.....

 

[Going2Baja]

Back to the original question...."NJA of course" - Why would anyone want to fly w/ Cosmo?

Baja.

 

[cosmotheassman]

haha. This board is just a mask for all of us. I like being the problem child here because its easy and there are no consequences. And, all of you take me so seriously, it's funny to me.

 

[Humphreybogart]

NetJets or Flexjet?

I would say neither. CitationShares has the BEST product out there, unless you're satisified with flying for second and third best.

 

[kman]

ooooogggggaaaaaa bbbbooooogggggaaaaa, gotta love that flame

 

[DO-82 driver]

LOL.....Bogart, thanks for the Sunday morning laugh.....

Could please tell us all again how CS was going to give you guys your pay rasies which were awarded shortly after our contract was ratified but that was just by chance...

Come on!!!!! come on!!!!!....please tell us another story.

And then...and then tell us the one how you believe Citation doesn't want CS to turn a profit becuase it would make the owners think they are getting ripped off.......Oh...that's a good one too!!!!! We like that story.

 

[Melfly]

Can anyone that works for flexjet confirm the REAL upgrade time? Airlinepilotcentral.com lists the most junior captian as a Sept. 04 Hire, about 2 yrs. But I see in a previous post someone listed 3-5 years. If it is actually 2 years, is this consistant or was there some massive growth in the past few years?
THanks!
(I currently work for a regional, but upgrade time is getting close to never.)

 

[CL300Pilot]

Can anyone that works for flexjet confirm the REAL upgrade time? Airlinepilotcentral.com lists the most junior captian as a Sept. 04 Hire, about 2 yrs. But I see in a previous post someone listed 3-5 years. If it is actually 2 years, is this consistant or was there some massive growth in the past few years?
THanks!
(I currently work for a regional, but upgrade time is getting close to never.)

Melfly, if anyone could truly answer that question,they would ge great at the horse track. Right now, yes, upgrades are running 2 years, but we have had a lot of growth. Nobody really knows what tomorrow holds for upgrades. If you come to flex or go to NJA, go in expecting upgrade in 3 to 4 years and hope to be suprised by 2 years.

Good luck which ever road you choose.

 

[netjetwife]

Excellent answer! When it comes to things like estimating upgrade time, prudence is the wisest course. Far better to receive a pleasant surprise rather than an unexpected disappointment. I add my wishes that all goes well for you, Melfly. NJW

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Melfly, if anyone could truly answer that question,they would ge great at the horse track. Right now, yes, upgrades are running 2 years, but we have had a lot of growth. Nobody really knows what tomorrow holds for upgrades. If you come to flex or go to NJA, go in expecting upgrade in 3 to 4 years and hope to be suprised by 2 years.

Good luck which ever road you choose.

When I left flex, upgrades were running about two years, but that was for what 2 guys? Rumor has it upgardes are back to 3 years or so. Still not bad, but not the two years and under I hear they are throwing out in interviews is off the mark.

Flex will never get a union. They keep coming up with too many clever ways to fire anyone who supports it. Even if you don't support a union for flex, firing people for supporting it speaks very negatively of the company in general.

 

[netjetwife]

Good point, Peter. Some posters here have suggested that if there was union interest at their company that the pilots would be a lot more vocal about it.... You have correctly reiterated that there is a need for caution among organizers. Watch your step Flex pilots and remember there's safety in numbers. Having union representation when a pilots has to interact with management is an important benefit of union membership.

Another thought--if the company will fire a pilot for speaking up for the right to organize that makes a telling statement (tacit admission) about the power they see in a union. They can squash an individual pilot, and ignore advisory councils, but they legally are required to deal with a union.

Good luck to all pilots trying to get a fair contract.
Netjetwife

 

[FraxJockey]

When I left flex, upgrades were running about two years, but that was for what 2 guys? Rumor has it upgardes are back to 3 years or so. Still not bad, but not the two years and under I hear they are throwing out in interviews is off the mark.

Flex will never get a union. They keep coming up with too many clever ways to fire anyone who supports it. Even if you don't support a union for flex, firing people for supporting it speaks very negatively of the company in general.

There have been a few times when I was scratching my head about why someone got fired, but when I got the real story there was a reason. As far as the comment NJW made...well she doesn't work here so I guess her comment doesn't mean squat. I could go on and on about why certain people got fired, but this is neither the time nor the place to do so, plus it's none of your dang business.

Peter, good luck in your new job. The fact that you moved on to seek better opportunities and weren't fired is a testament to the fact that you can be an open advocate of the union and not get "squashed" by management as NJW so feverently wants us to believe. There are many people that are Pro-union here and many of them are still here, no mass firings.

As far as the question goes, upgrades are running realistically 3-5 years now. And that is just about the same for anywhere you go now. There were at least a dozen guys that upgraded at 2 years or slightly more that 2 (2&1-3 mos.).

Frax

 

[netjetwife]

Frax, I thought by now that the whole board knows my role is a NetJet wife, and that I speak about the frac industry in general (based on observations and conversations w/pilots) and only NJA specifically. I apologize to you if that was not understood.

In general, other pilots have talked to me about pilots that were fired after they just happened to become involved in an organizing effort.... It's reasonable to think that both situations exist--justified and trumped up excuses. Otherwise, union-busting law firms wouldn't have clients, would they? The determination to keep a union off the property is rather obvious sometimes. When there are numerous examples of suspicious terminations many people tend to think where there's smoke there's fire. Knowing pilots who have been burned before leads me to believe the problem is still smoldering. That was the thought process that motivated my comment.

The most important point I made --They can squash an individual pilot, and ignore advisory councils, but they legally are required to deal with a union--applies across the industry and is a statement of the reality of the situation.

 

[FraxJockey]

Frax, I thought by now that the whole board knows my role is a NetJet wife, and that I speak about the frac industry in general (based on observations and conversations w/pilots) and only NJA specifically. I apologize to you if that was not understood.

In general, other pilots have talked to me about pilots that were fired after they just happened to become involved in an organizing effort.... It's reasonable to think that both situations exist--justified and trumped up excuses. Otherwise, union-busting law firms wouldn't have clients, would they? The determination to keep a union off the property is rather obvious sometimes. When there are numerous examples of suspicious terminations many people tend to think where there's smoke there's fire. Knowing pilots who have been burned before leads me to believe the problem is still smoldering. That was the thought process that motivated my comment.

The most important point I made --They can squash an individual pilot, and ignore advisory councils, but they legally are required to deal with a union--applies across the industry and is a statement of the reality of the situation.

It never ceases to amaze me how you can turn any question that is posed, such as the original posters intent ..."which would you prefer, Flexjet or Netjets?".. and turn it into a union "us against them" arguement. There is a place on this board specifically for union info, please try to keep it there. If you don't have any info on the question at hand please stay out of it.

 

[ScubaSky]

NJW, do you have your ear to the ground???

Both companies are great to work for.