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You guys are making me look like a genius. Thanx! B19

B19 Flyer

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You guys are all making me look like a genius.

ALL OF YOU STATED THERE WOULD BE NO JOB CUTS AT NETJETS BECAUSE THE CLEINTELE WAS SO RICH THEY COULD WITHSTAND ANY DOWNTURN IN THE ECONOMY.

Guess I was right again, and you union mongers were wrong again.

The union has done nothing but concede that the contract was too expensive and they were forced to find a way to reduce staffing to pay for the “industry leading contract”.

I’m not looking foolish here, this is exactly what I stated would happen. Is it a different method? Yep, but there will still be jobs lost, union and non-union, families will be hurt.

While the idea normally only happens in a non-union arena, the concept of buyouts isn’t new. Before all of you have a group hug with each other, you really should let it play out to see of the results match in reality what they do on paper. If they don’t get the numbers they need, it will get fugly.

Over the many years (and recent months) I have stated:

Unions will sacrifice pilot and non-pilot jobs before they will concede pay.

Usually, it’s the bottom third, and while this is creative, this is nothing more than a very expensive buyout that in a best case scenario will avoid ugly labor action if it works. The union hasn’t conceded a nickel of pay, thus as I have previously stated, a larger amount of jobs will be lost than could have happened if the union had done something like this AND did a good faith bargaining agreement to reduce compensation. This is all once sided. The last time I saw this, the first round worked, the remaining round created a horrible environment because future packages are not as lucrative. The method is different, but I stated the union would not concede pay to save jobs and I was right.

The success of a contract can only be judged at the conclusion of the contract.

So far, I see that the industry leading contract has failed because the union needed to come up with a way to work something out with the company to prevent the traditional furloughs from happening. The plan is now just being executed. If the contract was everything you guys said it would be, not a single pilot would be facing any time off via a voluntary or involuntary layoff. The contact failed as jobs are being lost.

None of you care about the financial health of the company or support worker’s families that support you.

Not one of you has said a word about your non-pilot coworkers and what is happening with them. Why? Union greed and selfishness. Not a one of you cares about the financial health of Netjets, all you care about is what you are going to get out of it. This process will not be deemed a success unless the next quarterly statement shows that NJ has contributed profitably to the bottom line of B-H. If not, the contract has failed.

I stated in early January that I has heard as many as 50 airplanes were going to be parked.

ALL OF YOU told me I was wrong. I guess my source was correct, and while the final count isn’t in yet, once again.. I had advanced info you didn’t have. I was right, and well.. once again, you were wrong.
 
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gutshotdraw

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That actually took a day longer than I thought it would..........




Nothing like revisionist history. I've noticed it's more prevalent in politicians, old people, talking head tv types, and paid, er, em, "consultants"........
 

gutshotdraw

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Sorry Dime. I was typing while you were. I'll be quiet now. You're right of course.
 

B19 Flyer

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You can't handle the truth...

Please Do Not Post Anything Past This Post.....Please

That's right Dimeline.. you be a good union boy and attempt to silence the reality. You've never been able to handle the truth before, and I don't expect you to handle it now.
 

hawkerf

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The people taking the buy out are only getting a portion of their pay, thus saving the company money. They are all senior enough that even if there was a furlough most of them would be okay.

They are making this choice because it is giving them a rare oppurtunity to retire and not touch their own retirement for 3 years.

The company didn't have to do this. They could have just furloughed as many pilots as they wanted too, union or not.

Do this forum a favor and vaporize.
 

fischman

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A legend in his own mind...
 

hydrarkt

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Just so everyone understands, B19 does not work at NJA and does not know the details. His observations are erroneous and incorrect. Idiot big mouth.
 

B19 Flyer

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You people can't deal with reality, can you?

Just so everyone understands, B19 does not work at NJA and does not know the details. His observations are erroneous and incorrect. Idiot big mouth.


Everything I've said is true and is happening right now. While the solution is creative, Netjets is the one that bears the brunt of the cost. I see nothing in any of the package where the union is conceding anythihng.

So, what is incorrect?

That the price of the "industry leading contract" exceeds what the company can afford causing creating solutions?

Y'all said it couldn't happen. It is!

Unions are asking members to sacrifice (Oh, they are calling it volunteer, but in reality they are asking for pilots to give their jobs up and take temporary layoffs) before they will concede pay. NJ is picking up the tab, not the union.

Classic twist on an old subject.

The success of a contract can only be judged at the conclusion of the contract.

Only a few days into this and all of you are calling it a success? And who is a success for? If the quarterly report doesn't show a profit as a result.. it failed.


None of you care about the financial health of the company or support worker’s families that support you.

Crickets.. nothing from any of you... YOU DON'T CARE.


I stated in early January that I has heard as many as 50 airplanes were going to be parked.

Are airplanes not being parked? When I asked, all of you said that was impossible.

I can add to this list, and at some point in the near future will... but everything above I can provide posts to where all of you inexperienced wanna be managers said it couldn't happen. It is happening, just like the frist wave in the legacy carriers in 2001 and 2002. That got ugly then, and my prediction is that the nirvana you think you are getting will implode.

The contract is too expensive.
 

sshrae

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In reading your posts one would have to think that you are playing devils advocate and don't really believe what you are saying. Do you really think that we do not care about the financial health of our company? I'm sure I'm wasting my time with you but you are not making yourself look very good right now.
 

gutshotdraw

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What Dub said....
 

illinipilot

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If B19 (represents management, abet not NJ management), and the pilot group both believe that they came out ahead with this agreement, doesn't that make it a win-win?

At least I think B19 is gloating because he/she thinks that management has the upper hand, and not because he/she desires NJ to go out of business simply because they're a unionized shop. Thereby eleminating thousands of jobs.
 

BeeDubya

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If B19 (represents management, abet not NJ management), and the pilot group both believe that they came out ahead with this agreement, doesn't that make it a win-win?

And of course, B19 wasn't in the room with NJ Management and NJASAP. I was and I continue to be. His musings are entertaining, but factually deficient.

Brian Ward
 

hyflyin

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Whoa
Whats funny is he blames the contract for being to expensive, when it has nothing to do with the contract but an unprecedented economic downturn. Anything less and all businesses would be just fine.

Can't fix stupid of course, so he will continue to be a legend in his own mind. Unfortunately we will never be able to eradicate such vermin.

As a very Junior NJA family member and dealing with such low life's as B for many years, I am humbled by the generosity of NJA management and NJASAP for stepping up to the plate to take care of the company, its junior members and most of all my family. We will survive any kind of reduction just fine.

A sincere thank you to all! Carry on.
 

HiSpeedFlyer

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Deleted (why bother, he thinks he won anyway....)
 
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B19 Flyer

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Let's talk a little history...

And of course, B19 wasn't in the room with NJ Management and NJASAP. I was and I continue to be. His musings are entertaining, but factually deficient.

Brian Ward

Let's talk a little history first.

Before the September attacks happened in 2001, the economy was already beginning to slide, airlines were most affected by the unprecedented high cost of labor and the “industry leading contracts”. All of us knew what was happening, the first thing all the legacy carriers did was freeze hiring, send management pilots back to the line and retire fleets that were not cost effective. The union refused to talk about concessions. It was clear in the beginning that the revenue did not support historically high cost of labor.

Then, after the attacks, everything became more extreme, furloughs began and the union still would not talk about concessions and air carriers had to continue to tolerate the historically high cost of labor in relationship to revenues.

When the nice solutions didn’t work and when push came to shove, the unions still refused to give concessions. That is when the carriers were forced to protect themselves with bankruptcy and in the case of American, near bankruptcy.

It looks to me that the same pattern is going to develop, and while I will admit, this is a warm fuzzy plan unlike any other, the union hasn’t given up a nickel, only the pilots and the company have. Those that decide to stay are still getting paid a wage that does not match the revenue.

Unless there is a miraculous turnaround in the economy, this warm fuzzy will only last for a short period of time.

Here is the bottom line from the warm and fuzzy that all of you have and think I should have. If the union would have been willing to take concessions, even a token one to help absorb the cost that NetJets is going to have to pay to pull this off, I would agree that this is a good package.

I don’t see that happening. On the website, it’s clear that NJASAP has not conceded any pay and that NJ will fund the entire package.

This is union business as normal, only taking a slightly different path this time. The company will save some money, but the root of the problem is the mismatch of historically high cost of labor vs. revenue.

You guys seem to think that the fractional model is different from any other company or business. It’s not. It’s still cost vs. revenue.

Until the union volunteers to reduce the cost of labor to bring it in line with revenue, this is union business as usual and will last only for a period of time.

If any of you think that this is the last solution, it's only the first step of many, and I will state here and now that the union will be forced to take concessions before it's over.

The sooner the union steps up to the plate and contributes to the cost savings, the sooner the company will be able to return to profitability and bring all of those pilots back to the FULL TIME wages they deserve.
 

B19 Flyer

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It's still cost vs revenue

And of course, B19 wasn't in the room with NJ Management and NJASAP. I was and I continue to be. His musings are entertaining, but factually deficient.

Brian Ward

To you, they are entertaining, but I've been in that room too and know exactly what would have staved off problems had the union acted to the fullest extent possible.

Let's see if they are still entertaining in a year while the unprecedented high cost of your "industry leading contract" is still unbalanced and sucking the revenue to the extent where the company is unable to return to profitability and bring all the pilots back to full time wages.

All the pilots are touting this as being a great thing and the end all, but you and I know that it's nothing but a starting point. The union could have done more but chose not to because any kind of contract concession, even a token one would have been a resounding defeat for the union. The union would rather let it get ugly, then blame the continued failure on the company to save face. Yeah, we've both been there.. and history is going to repeat itself before it's over.

This is why I don't believe in unions, they can't do it right the first time and will never accept responsibility when it doesn't work.
 
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gunfyter

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Mr 19...

I have to call BS once again.

The only thing that restores full time flying is SALES and more SALES.... that produce flying... and more flying.

If there is flying there will be pilot jobs ... if there is not flying ... there will not be pilot jobs.

The reason for RIFs is when companies miscalculate their need for staffing ... like hiring hundreds of pilots in anticipation of skyrocketing FUTURE demand that doesn't materialize.

A mistake in planning by management that you would like to blame THE WORKERS for....
 
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