XJT MEC declares war on ASA pilots.

[Nevets]

Really? Do tell.

Let me start by saying that I'm neither for or against globalization as of yet. Also, there are a couple of things playing into the mix of this debate. I'll mention one right now, differences in culture. At XJT, in my opinion only, it seems that we are not so intransigent when it comes to seniority as it relates in most things dealing with anything other than base/status and line holder/reserve, as ASA is. With that said, a couple of things I can think just off the top of my head that could mitigate any PBS software that "uses" globalization, assuming for the moment that is what we want to do, is have language that allows composite lines and/or guaranteed percentage of open time left over after ALL schedules have been modified/built/rebuilt/etc. Going on the safe assumption that the XJT side would rather keep their current contract rather than ratify one with less QOL (my assumption none the less), the latter is definitely one of many assurances (concrete contract language if there is such a thing) that the XJT side would insist on IF we end up with ANY PBS system.

 

[bigshooter107]

guaranteed percentage of open time left over after ALL schedules have been modified/built/rebuilt/etc.
Just for kicks... One 4 day trip and one 2 day left on the 700 last month after the bid run...

 

[bigshooter107]

If they have to unstack, say Xmas day for example. The most junior guy that got that day or trip off would have to fly. If it were line bidding they just would not build more schedules than the staffing model would allow.

 

[Nevets]

guaranteed percentage of open time left over after ALL schedules have been modified/built/rebuilt/etc.
Just for kicks... One 4 day trip and one 2 day left on the 700 last month after the bid run...

And therein lies the erosion of QOL in your contract to XJT if we were to let the company do that in a JCBA. Which is why I made it more imperative on my last post. By the way, I'm only talking about leaving the same amount of open time that they do now after the SLWI opens. It's more than two trips but it's not even close to the amount in the ILIW.

 

[sweptback]

Why would you want to force the company to maintain open time at the end of a PBS run? All you're doing is forcing a non-negligible amount of junior people to be on reserve when they could have held lines with those left over pairings.

They're not going to care about your ability to improve your schedule when you already used your seniority to bid the exact pairings you wanted.

It's becoming more and more obvious that these XJT folks don't understand PBS, at all. I hope whomever is on the XJT MEC side making the calls on PBS understands what they are asking for, otherwise we will end up with a treat of a system.

 

[bigshooter107]

In a perfect world there would be no opentime and just enough reserves to cover sick calls. A large block of opentime is exactly what PBS is there to prevent.

 

[goahead]

It's becoming more and more obvious that these XJT folks don't understand PBS, at all. I hope whomever is on the XJT MEC side making the calls on PBS understands what they are asking for, otherwise we will end up with a treat of a system.

Exactly

 

[dojetdriver]

It's becoming more and more obvious that these XJT folks don't understand PBS, at all. I hope whomever is on the XJT MEC side making the calls on PBS understands what they are asking for, otherwise we will end up with a treat of a system.

Not to be rude, but it's becoming more and more obvious that 1) these ASA folks don't understand that not ALL PBS systems are equal, and there may be a better one out there that can conform to the XJT contract better, and 2) These ASA folks are to ignorant to understand that the XJT line bid system is NOT the ASA line bid system of old. And 3) They need to get ahold of their OWN MEC members that broke the confidentiality agreement and sound bit from an executive session and really just should have kept their mouths shut in the first place. Because without them, this particular deal WOULDN'T be happening. You CAN'T ignore that fact.

To take a line from the movie "Presumed Innocent" starring Harrison Ford

"read the fukcin' report"

Again, not to be rude or disrespectful. But if you're gonna dish it out, you better be able to take it.

You ready to answer the question I asked you about the email?

 

[ASADriver]

It's obvious that XJT pilots don't value seniority like ASA pilots. It seems like they want a socialized system that treats everyone the same. Sorry, that's not how this business works. Just say NO to globalization!

 

[sweptback]

Who cares about a PBS system that fits with the XJT contract? The XJT contract is irrelevant, the JCBA is what we are working on going forward.

I highly doubt the XJT contract is the end-all-be-all of QOL, so let's be a bit openminded here. We have a rare opportunity to negotiate something good, and if we try to hold on to what's on our respective sides, we're all going to miss out.

 

[79%N1]

Let's ask the guys who will be stuck on reserve that could hold lines if they are down with leaving a bunch of pairings in open time so others can improve their schedules!

Nice.......

 

[dojetdriver]

It's obvious that XJT pilots don't value seniority like ASA pilots. It seems like they want a socialized system that treats everyone the same. Sorry, that's not how this business works. Just say NO to globalization!

And you couldn't be more ignorant, or more wrong, take your pick. XJT pilots value seniority, they ALSO value the ability of a junior line holder that gets a crappy schedule (can happen under EITHER line bid OR PBS) to have the ability to fix it. That doesn't happen with the current ASA PBS, especially when unstack is used. Some pilots love the ASA PBS, some hate it. As evidenced here or the face to face I have with ASA guys in IAD. How may XJT pilots don't like the line bid/work rules?

Who cares about a PBS system that fits with the XJT contract? The XJT contract is irrelevant, the JCBA is what we are working on going forward.

Because the XJT CBA is better than the ASA CBA. I'll make you the offer AGAIN, let's compare side by side and see which one you'd rather have. And at a minimum, the XJT contract as far as work rules should be used as the STARTING point, NOT the ASA PBS. But if you want to get on your knees, surrender, and drink the kool aid like JoeMerchant, have at it brotha'

I highly doubt the XJT contract is the end-all-be-all of QOL, so let's be a bit openminded here. We have a rare opportunity to negotiate something good, and if we try to hold on to what's on our respective sides, we're all going to miss out.

It's not, and needs improvement. But since you used the word "doubt" I'd be inclined to believe you haven't even read it, any of it. Who needs to get their head out of the sand? You read the email yet? You figure out who on the ASA said broke the confidentiality agreement yet? Crickets out of you on this one man.

Let's ask the guys who will be stuck on reserve that could hold lines if they are down with leaving a bunch of pairings in open time so others can improve their schedules!

Nice.......

Good point, let's ask those guys that can do BD/WD trades and move days off around, as well as use the APW while on reserve. For many, it's better than holding a crappy/junior line. If I was in unstack territory, doubt I'd be going for a hard line, I'd take long call any month with the QOL provisions that go along with it. And I commute.

 

[ASADriver]

And you couldn't be more ignorant, or more wrong, take your pick. XJT pilots value seniority, they ALSO value the ability of a junior line holder that gets a crappy schedule (can happen under EITHER line bid OR PBS) to have the ability to fix it. That doesn't happen with the current ASA PBS, especially when unstack is used. Some pilots love the ASA PBS, some hate it. As evidenced here or the face to face I have with ASA guys in IAD. How may XJT pilots don't like the line bid/work rules?

Ignorant? ME? Do you even know how PBS works? Pilots pick trips based on seniority and build their own lines vs. the company building those lines. The good trips are going to picked by the senior pilots. That is how the system works. You want to withold trips from those senior bidders and put them into an open time pot for junior pilots to improve their schedules. That will come at the expense of the senior pilots. No wonder you want a globalized based PBS system.

 

[dojetdriver]

Ignorant? ME?

Yep, you.

Do you even know how PBS works?

Yep, do you? Seems as if there's more than one ASA pilot that isn't fully aware of how PBS works.

Pilots pick trips based on seniority and build their own lines vs. the company building those lines. The good trips are going to picked by the senior pilots.

What happens when the credit window is high? Do they ALL get the "good trips"

You want to withold trips from those senior bidders and put them into an open time pot for junior pilots to improve their schedules.

Who said ANYTHING about withholding trips from senior bidders?

That will come at the expense of the senior pilots. No wonder you want a globalized based PBS system.

Again, ignorance. Read the report.

 

[sweptback]

Because the XJT CBA is better than the ASA CBA. I'll make you the offer AGAIN, let's compare side by side and see which one you'd rather have. And at a minimum, the XJT contract as far as work rules should be used as the STARTING point, NOT the ASA PBS. But if you want to get on your knees, surrender, and drink the kool aid like JoeMerchant, have at it brotha'

I'd rather not resort to personal insults here. We had a fairly informative thread going.

I'm also not trying to get wrapped around which contract is "better". Since neither one of us is on the JNC or MEC, our opinions on contract language are not really that important.

It's called a joint contract for a reason. Who cares where we came from -- we need to focus on where we want to be.