XJT MEC declares war on ASA pilots.

[bigshooter107]

In a perfect world there would be no opentime and just enough reserves to cover sick calls. A large block of opentime is exactly what PBS is there to prevent.

 

[goahead]

It's becoming more and more obvious that these XJT folks don't understand PBS, at all. I hope whomever is on the XJT MEC side making the calls on PBS understands what they are asking for, otherwise we will end up with a treat of a system.

Exactly

 

[dojetdriver]

It's becoming more and more obvious that these XJT folks don't understand PBS, at all. I hope whomever is on the XJT MEC side making the calls on PBS understands what they are asking for, otherwise we will end up with a treat of a system.

Not to be rude, but it's becoming more and more obvious that 1) these ASA folks don't understand that not ALL PBS systems are equal, and there may be a better one out there that can conform to the XJT contract better, and 2) These ASA folks are to ignorant to understand that the XJT line bid system is NOT the ASA line bid system of old. And 3) They need to get ahold of their OWN MEC members that broke the confidentiality agreement and sound bit from an executive session and really just should have kept their mouths shut in the first place. Because without them, this particular deal WOULDN'T be happening. You CAN'T ignore that fact.

To take a line from the movie "Presumed Innocent" starring Harrison Ford

"read the fukcin' report"

Again, not to be rude or disrespectful. But if you're gonna dish it out, you better be able to take it.

You ready to answer the question I asked you about the email?

 

[ASADriver]

It's obvious that XJT pilots don't value seniority like ASA pilots. It seems like they want a socialized system that treats everyone the same. Sorry, that's not how this business works. Just say NO to globalization!

 

[sweptback]

Who cares about a PBS system that fits with the XJT contract? The XJT contract is irrelevant, the JCBA is what we are working on going forward.

I highly doubt the XJT contract is the end-all-be-all of QOL, so let's be a bit openminded here. We have a rare opportunity to negotiate something good, and if we try to hold on to what's on our respective sides, we're all going to miss out.

 

[79%N1]

Let's ask the guys who will be stuck on reserve that could hold lines if they are down with leaving a bunch of pairings in open time so others can improve their schedules!

Nice.......

 

[dojetdriver]

It's obvious that XJT pilots don't value seniority like ASA pilots. It seems like they want a socialized system that treats everyone the same. Sorry, that's not how this business works. Just say NO to globalization!

And you couldn't be more ignorant, or more wrong, take your pick. XJT pilots value seniority, they ALSO value the ability of a junior line holder that gets a crappy schedule (can happen under EITHER line bid OR PBS) to have the ability to fix it. That doesn't happen with the current ASA PBS, especially when unstack is used. Some pilots love the ASA PBS, some hate it. As evidenced here or the face to face I have with ASA guys in IAD. How may XJT pilots don't like the line bid/work rules?

Who cares about a PBS system that fits with the XJT contract? The XJT contract is irrelevant, the JCBA is what we are working on going forward.

Because the XJT CBA is better than the ASA CBA. I'll make you the offer AGAIN, let's compare side by side and see which one you'd rather have. And at a minimum, the XJT contract as far as work rules should be used as the STARTING point, NOT the ASA PBS. But if you want to get on your knees, surrender, and drink the kool aid like JoeMerchant, have at it brotha'

I highly doubt the XJT contract is the end-all-be-all of QOL, so let's be a bit openminded here. We have a rare opportunity to negotiate something good, and if we try to hold on to what's on our respective sides, we're all going to miss out.

It's not, and needs improvement. But since you used the word "doubt" I'd be inclined to believe you haven't even read it, any of it. Who needs to get their head out of the sand? You read the email yet? You figure out who on the ASA said broke the confidentiality agreement yet? Crickets out of you on this one man.

Let's ask the guys who will be stuck on reserve that could hold lines if they are down with leaving a bunch of pairings in open time so others can improve their schedules!

Nice.......

Good point, let's ask those guys that can do BD/WD trades and move days off around, as well as use the APW while on reserve. For many, it's better than holding a crappy/junior line. If I was in unstack territory, doubt I'd be going for a hard line, I'd take long call any month with the QOL provisions that go along with it. And I commute.

 

[ASADriver]

And you couldn't be more ignorant, or more wrong, take your pick. XJT pilots value seniority, they ALSO value the ability of a junior line holder that gets a crappy schedule (can happen under EITHER line bid OR PBS) to have the ability to fix it. That doesn't happen with the current ASA PBS, especially when unstack is used. Some pilots love the ASA PBS, some hate it. As evidenced here or the face to face I have with ASA guys in IAD. How may XJT pilots don't like the line bid/work rules?

Ignorant? ME? Do you even know how PBS works? Pilots pick trips based on seniority and build their own lines vs. the company building those lines. The good trips are going to picked by the senior pilots. That is how the system works. You want to withold trips from those senior bidders and put them into an open time pot for junior pilots to improve their schedules. That will come at the expense of the senior pilots. No wonder you want a globalized based PBS system.

 

[dojetdriver]

Ignorant? ME?

Yep, you.

Do you even know how PBS works?

Yep, do you? Seems as if there's more than one ASA pilot that isn't fully aware of how PBS works.

Pilots pick trips based on seniority and build their own lines vs. the company building those lines. The good trips are going to picked by the senior pilots.

What happens when the credit window is high? Do they ALL get the "good trips"

You want to withold trips from those senior bidders and put them into an open time pot for junior pilots to improve their schedules.

Who said ANYTHING about withholding trips from senior bidders?

That will come at the expense of the senior pilots. No wonder you want a globalized based PBS system.

Again, ignorance. Read the report.

 

[sweptback]

Because the XJT CBA is better than the ASA CBA. I'll make you the offer AGAIN, let's compare side by side and see which one you'd rather have. And at a minimum, the XJT contract as far as work rules should be used as the STARTING point, NOT the ASA PBS. But if you want to get on your knees, surrender, and drink the kool aid like JoeMerchant, have at it brotha'

I'd rather not resort to personal insults here. We had a fairly informative thread going.

I'm also not trying to get wrapped around which contract is "better". Since neither one of us is on the JNC or MEC, our opinions on contract language are not really that important.

It's called a joint contract for a reason. Who cares where we came from -- we need to focus on where we want to be.

 

[dojetdriver]

I'd rather not resort to personal insults here. We had a fairly informative thread going.

Me neither, but stop saying that "XJT people don't understand how PBS works crap" It's pretty clear ASA guys ONLY know one type of PBS. Fair enough?

I'm also not trying to get wrapped around which contract is "better". Since neither one of us is on the JNC or MEC, our opinions on contract language are not really that important.

Good point. With that in mind, don't make the statement that the XJT contract is irrelevant. Said it in this thread before, you're not paying attention. ASA PBS software doesn't work with the XJT PBS, square peg in a round hole. ASA PBS = concession. There's NO guaranty that the PBS paramaters can conform to the CBA. So sorry, it is relevant.

It's called a joint contract for a reason. Who cares where we came from -- we need to focus on where we want to be.

Agreed. Let's start with the ASA MEC that broke confidentiality and get them removed/recalled. Since they can't be trusted with one 1) Keeping their mouths shut and 2) Can't be trusted or carry any credibility on taking us where we want to be.

 

[ASADriver]

What happens when the credit window is high? Do they ALL get the "good trips"

Doesn't matter what the window is. If you are senior, you pick your trips first. The window only determines how much credit you have to have. Here in ATL, the bottom of the window is never all that bad. It's higher in the summer and very low in the winter. IAD has had problems, but that is a staffing issue, not a PBS issue as has already been pointed out to you.

Who said ANYTHING about withholding trips from senior bidders?

You did above. You want a way for the junior people who get crappy lines to be able to improve their lines. Where exactly will those trips come from if you don't withold them or take them from senior pilots?

 

[ASADriver]

Agreed. Let's start with the ASA MEC that broke confidentiality and get them removed/recalled. Since they can't be trusted with one 1) Keeping their mouths shut and 2) Can't be trusted or carry any credibility on taking us where we want to be.

Boy, you guys are more arrogant than Delta pilots. Now you are telling us how to run our MEC. Maybe you should just deal with your own problems and stop lecturing us. Obviously your MEC isn't listening to your pilots. It's safe to say that most of your pilots don't want PBS. Why is your MEC now pushing PBS? Your MEC is out there on their own pushing a method you don't want and a PBS system we don't want.

 

[dojetdriver]

You did above. You want a way for the junior people who get crappy lines to be able to improve their lines. Where exactly will those trips come from if you don't withold them or take them from senior pilots?

Nope, didn't say that at all.

I was referring to the trips that drop into open time due to transition/training/vacation conflict.

 

[bigshooter107]

Nope, didn't say that at all.

I was referring to the trips that drop into open time due to transition/training/vacation conflict.

With any PBS system these trips will no longer exist, that's the whole point of the system....

 

[dojetdriver]

Boy, you guys are more arrogant than Delta pilots. Now you are telling us how to run our MEC.

Could you at least tell them to shut up?

Maybe you should just deal with your own problems and stop lecturing us. Obviously your MEC isn't listening to your pilots. It's safe to say that most of your pilots don't want PBS. Why is your MEC now pushing PBS? Your MEC is out there on their own pushing a method you don't want and a PBS system we don't want.

Again, ignorance. The XJT MEC has been researching PBS since 2008, when a BK filing was a possibility and the BK judge could have imposed it if it eer came to that. Can you show me where the XJT MEC is trying to push PBS on the XJT pilots? Do you have ANY emails of other form of communication that can back up that claim? I'd love to see it. You, and others are simply going on what was sound bit from a confidential executive session, NOTHING more.

 

[ASADriver]

Nope, didn't say that at all.

I was referring to the trips that drop into open time due to transition/training/vacation conflict.

I thought you said you undertood PBS? How do you get transition/training/vacation conflict with PBS? Here's a hint: YOU DON'T!

 

[bigshooter107]

I guess I missed it some where in this thread , but what exactly did the ASA MEC break confidentiality on?

 

[dojetdriver]

I thought you said you undertood PBS? How do you get transition/training/vacation conflict with PBS? Here's a hint: YOU DON'T!

Show me where I correlated the two? Quote the post. I was talking about the ability to improve the junior line holders schedule (that can happen under BOTH line bid or PBS) with the trips that drop into open time due to conflict under the line bid system. It can be done under line bid, with PBS elimination of open time, that's not an option.

Show me were I said PBS creates conflict, quote the post where I said it does.

 

[nerjdriver]

I thought you said you undertood PBS? How do you get transition/training/vacation conflict with PBS? Here's a hint: YOU DON'T!

Exactly. Proof you do not understand how we "line" bid. Since you obviously have your head in the sand the term "line bidding" is just a term to define a system by which we bid. Bidding INTO conflict allows us to maximize vacation and so on, while PBS simply lays everything around it. Nice try though, watching you defend the ASA MEC and your inferior contract is amusing. Kinda makes you wonder why the ASA management is growing the XJT side and not so much the ASA side.