XJT MEC declares war on ASA pilots.

[sweptback]

For those XJT scheduling types, what is inherently wrong with the Flightline PrefBid engine that could not be fixed with better work rules?

Why is this Crewing Solutions product so much better (besides globalization, which is honestly not an improvement), and why are no other airlines using the product? It's not a new product either, so why is everybody in the market for PBS looking at it and passing on it?

From where I stand, the ASA pilots have over a year of experience with the PrefBid product. That's a lot of collective experience to throw away and switch to a new system that may or may not be better. Right now, we know what is wrong with PrefBid and we know how to fix it. That cannot be said about another vendor's product.

 

[79%N1]

Maybe it is better. Let's hear about it.

 

[crazy8]

For those XJT scheduling types, what is inherently wrong with the Flightline PrefBid engine that could not be fixed with better work rules?

Why is this Crewing Solutions product so much better (besides globalization, which is honestly not an improvement), and why are no other airlines using the product? It's not a new product either, so why is everybody in the market for PBS looking at it and passing on it?

From where I stand, the ASA pilots have over a year of experience with the PrefBid product. That's a lot of collective experience to throw away and switch to a new system that may or may not be better. Right now, we know what is wrong with PrefBid and we know how to fix it. That cannot be said about another vendor's product.

The problem with PrefBid is that the problems are known...you may know how to fix it.... but the system is inherently incapable of fixing those problems. Clear as mud?

 

[JoeMerchant]

You XJT guys are missing the point. This isn't about PBS vs. Line Bidding. The XJT MEC has abandoned your precious line bidding and is now pushing a different type of PBS...one that doesn't honor seniority and one that no other airline uses. Hasn't your MEC shared this info. with you? If not, why not?

 

[crazy8]

You XJT guys are missing the point. This isn't about PBS vs. Line Bidding. The XJT MEC has abandoned your precious line bidding and is now pushing a different type of PBS...one that doesn't honor seniority and one that no other airline uses. Hasn't your MEC shared this info. with you? If not, why not?

Nothing has been abandoned. We're still line bidding (and will continue to do so until it is VOTED on)....and....YES, they HAVE shared the fact that it isn't used by anyone else (because it's new and there has to be a first to use it, no?). Joe, in your ever so awesome wisdom, explain to us how it will violate seniority. Explain how it violates seniority more than your current system, which does so on a monthly basis.

 

[pilotnbr1]

After looking at SmartPref the concept is interesting as far as possibly viewing your line as you modify your options. But I don't think it will work as intended.
The system builds your possible future line based on the selections of those senior to you. So if people senior to you change anything it will have a snowball effect down the seniority list. If it was me bidding in that system I would be going in at the last possible minute before bid close to get a schedule that I want. With everyone trying to game the system like the last few minute of an ebay bid it negates the main supposed advantage of SmartPref... I just don't see the continuous line building aspect working as advertised unless I missed something.

I have seen the information the ExpressJet scheduling committee put out regarding all of the different PBS systems available. It appears they did their homework and have a decent understanding of the Flightline PBS system. It has it's pros and cons just like any system. Currently its far better in my opinion than ASA's old line bidding but I am not convinced it is better than Expressjet's version of bidding lines. I need more of an education on the pros and cons of Expressjet's system in order to make an informed vote...

I have to say that I am impressed by the amount of information the ExpressJet MEC seems to convey to the pilot group. The email sent out comparing all 10 to 15 PBS systems was easy to read and comprehensive. I am tired of the lack of information passed on by the ASA MEC. Show me what I am paying 2% of my paycheck for. Sometimes I think the years of micromanaging egocentric management style of the old ASA has rubbed off on our MEC. Pass the information to the pilot group and let us have more input. Seems like to little transparency and closed door politics which fuels the rumor mill and threads like these.

 

[GeekMaster]

Nothing has been abandoned. We're still line bidding (and will continue to do so until it is VOTED on)....and....YES, they HAVE shared the fact that it isn't used by anyone else (because it's new and there has to be a first to use it, no?). Joe, in your ever so awesome wisdom, explain to us how it will violate seniority. Explain how it violates seniority more than your current system, which does so on a monthly basis.

You have preached repeatedly that Prefbid does not honor seniority and Smartpref will. Your argument is that Prefbid socializes by making senior pilots fly more hours in order to cover junior pilots' vacation. Our MEC has acknowledged that this was indeed an issue and something they had already been working on before this merger occurred.

Here's the flaw in your logic: The reason for that socialization isn't in the software or its award logic. It's in the lack of staffing and control of the bottom of the window. At XJT you had a line divisor to take care of that. Your line divisor acted as a pseudo staffing formula, therefore allowing adequate low credit lines for the senior guys who didn't want to fly.

Our MEC has pointed out to you repeatedly that fixes for this could be negotiated to gain more control of the bottom of the window. Further, improvement would be realized through converting to Adopts. As the conversion takes place it has improved the problem.

Also, XJT controls its summer staffing problems by not allowing pilots to take summer vacations. ASA distributed vacations evenly throughout the year. XJT does an uneven allotment by making lots of vacation available in off months like September and February and very few available during the summer. THIS PRACTICE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHICH PBS SYSTEM IS USED !!!

Now to Smartpref. You keep talking about how important it is to senority and yet you are pushing this untested system that GLOBALIZES and only allows one bid sheet. Every single scheduling chairman at every single airline that uses PBS will tell you the exact same thing. GLOBALIZATION DOES NOT HONOR SENIORITY !!!! And yet you've somehow come to the conclusion that this new untested globalizing system is going to fix the world.

How's it working out for you in you test runs so far? Figured out how to make it award a nap schedule yet? You haven't even begun to find out all the challenges to make this software function at a level that YOUR pilots will demand to preserve their quality of life. There's already a system in place doing it. Why not modify that one instead of reinventing the wheel...... unless of course there's something else in it for you.. just sayin'.

 

[Data]

I said it back when ASA voted for PBS that it was much better to accept PBS in a side agreement than it was to roll it into a new contract. The reason? We could use the next contract to clean up the language and short-comings of PBS after using for a while. Which is exactly where we are now. The XJet MEC perhaps wants to take an unknown, untested system and roll it into the new contract, great, but what happens with the issues that will arise in the new solution (and there will be issues)? What opportunity will we have to correct them? I'll tell you, none. There are shortcomings in ASA's current PBS system but it will be far far easier to correct these than it will be to roll out a completely new system. Let's take advantage of the joint contract to hammer out some solid improvements to the existing solution.

One other point I'd make too, there are vast differences between the route planning that Delta provides versus the route planning that United/Continental provides. We're not exactly comparing apples to apples. The ASA side is at a disadvantage because of the way Delta provides our schedule. I think the XJet guys hear how bad our system is and think that it is because of our PBS. It's the schedules and the company generated pairings that cause a majority of the problems in our system (ie city pairs with overnights every 3rd night, multiple DCI carriers serving the same city on different nights). It seems that United/Continental provide more notice of the schedule and fewer interruptions than Delta which leads to a better quality pairing selection and an earlier bid cycle. None of this is impacted by PBS, it's simply a function of how each mainline partner handles the connection carriers. XJet accepting ASA's PBS does not mean they're going to be forced into our timeline (ie lines not out until the 20th etc). Our time constraints come from getting Delta's schedule later in the month that XJet's. PBS simply allows you a better method of selecting your pairings. Let's take a known quantity (ASA's PBS) and fix its problems and move forward with this. But please, don't make the mistake of accepting a new solution in a new contract, I guarantee there will be problems down the road with it and we will not have the opportunity to fix them unless it's in the company's best interest.

Just my uninformed two cents!

 

[crazy8]

You have preached repeatedly that Prefbid does not honor seniority and Smartpref will. Your argument is that Prefbid socializes by making senior pilots fly more hours in order to cover junior pilots' vacation. Our MEC has acknowledged that this was indeed an issue and something they had already been working on before this merger occurred.

Here's the flaw in your logic: The reason for that socialization isn't in the software or its award logic. It's in the lack of staffing and control of the bottom of the window. At XJT you had a line divisor to take care of that. Your line divisor acted as a pseudo staffing formula, therefore allowing adequate low credit lines for the senior guys who didn't want to fly.

Our MEC has pointed out to you repeatedly that fixes for this could be negotiated to gain more control of the bottom of the window. Further, improvement would be realized through converting to Adopts. As the conversion takes place it has improved the problem.

Also, XJT controls its summer staffing problems by not allowing pilots to take summer vacations. ASA distributed vacations evenly throughout the year. XJT does an uneven allotment by making lots of vacation available in off months like September and February and very few available during the summer. THIS PRACTICE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHICH PBS SYSTEM IS USED !!!

Now to Smartpref. You keep talking about how important it is to senority and yet you are pushing this untested system that GLOBALIZES and only allows one bid sheet. Every single scheduling chairman at every single airline that uses PBS will tell you the exact same thing. GLOBALIZATION DOES NOT HONOR SENIORITY !!!! And yet you've somehow come to the conclusion that this new untested globalizing system is going to fix the world.

How's it working out for you in you test runs so far? Figured out how to make it award a nap schedule yet? You haven't even begun to find out all the challenges to make this software function at a level that YOUR pilots will demand to preserve their quality of life. There's already a system in place doing it. Why not modify that one instead of reinventing the wheel...... unless of course there's something else in it for you.. just sayin'.

That's a fair argument....and no there is absolutely nothing in this for me.

Frankly, this whole PBS thing turns my stomach. It's a major concession for us. I would much rather keep the line bidding we have on the ERJ side. I just don't want to be caught with a crappy system if the combined pilot group votes in something other than line bidding.

 

[Texx]

And, once again, the reason I very infrequently peruse these boards.....

It has been awhile?