Wright Amendment to lose some punch today

[NAA Pilot]

It was sarcasm directed at his "I hate-AA" tone... for which you guys are notorious.

:beer:

And you guys aren't notorious for "it's all TWA's fault?" "Blame it on Supp CC", "Nordstrums vs Kmart", "They are lucky to have a job" "hotdog vendors" etc etc???

 

[canyonblue]

LUV: DAL to MCI round trip = 273.50

AA: DFW to MCI round trip = 158.00

(I used December 15 with return on December 17th)

It is too close to get the super saver fare on us. But I went to the 23rd with a return on the 26th and found this................

LUV: DAL to MCI round trip = $153.90

AA: DFW to MCI round trip = $328.40

It would be tough to figure out though, we JUST started the route and AA has been selling ticket for awhile, so there may have been some fares that were less.

Looking at February I found ......................

LUV: DAL to MCI round trip = $153.90 (with taxes)

AA: DFW to MCI round trip = $178.40 ($158.00 plus taxes)

 

[elcid]

1. Those routes are already competitive in nature. All Large markets are.
2. Any lost income will just be recovered on other routes. Short haul routes like this are profitable at $100 a seat, even for AA. They're even profitable down to about $59-69. An MD-80 run for AA seat cost is about $40.
3. The big hit will be on smaller connecting routes, but there's enough demand on these routes to connect a 737-800 or MD-80 to each major bank to offset what will be an overcapacity situation initially as AA and WN try to throw in 10-14 round trips each.

Skyboss,

You don't really think AA is going to put an MD-80 or 737/800 on those routes do you? Try about a dozen regional jets each. That's the AA answer to save costs and be competitive is to cram customers onto a small uncomfortable regional jet whose crews and other employees receive welfare wages. All to the horror of their customers who climb into the cramped RJ cabin and gasp in disbelief since they booked their ticket on the AA website. AA will keep taking MD-80's off line and replacing them with RJs and furloughing mainline pilots to compete with the LCCs. C'mon. Why do you even defend this?

 

[aa73]

And you guys aren't notorious for "it's all TWA's fault?" "Blame it on Supp CC", "Nordstrums vs Kmart", "They are lucky to have a job" "hotdog vendors" etc etc???

Nope, I'm sure as heck not. Having spent five years growing up in STL and having many friends that flew for TWA, I always saw both sides of the story. Those quotes were made by the APA leadership that set up the deal, not the rank and file. Most of the rank and file felt helpless towards the whole deal, since there was nothing we could do about it. Your pilot group is/was a class act, and I'm not alone in saying that here in "Sky Nazi Land."

 

[aa73]

Skyboss,

You don't really think AA is going to put an MD-80 or 737/800 on those routes do you? Try about a dozen regional jets each. That's the AA answer to save costs and be competitive is to cram customers onto a small uncomfortable regional jet whose crews and other employees receive welfare wages. All to the horror of their customers who climb into the cramped RJ cabin and gasp in disbelief since they booked their ticket on the AA website. AA will keep taking MD-80's off line and replacing them with RJs and furloughing mainline pilots to compete with the LCCs. C'mon. Why do you even defend this?

Elcid,

I'm sorry but AA has already confirmed that they will be operating "Mainline jets", not Eagle, out of DAL. Probably MD80s. No more furloughs, in fact just the opposite, we will be recalling pilots next year. I don't know where you get your info but it is mistaken. The RJ market is already saturated, and Eagle has stopped receiving new RJs. We still have a bunch of MD80s parked in the desert, so if we ever expand a little domestically, it will probably be mainline.

 

[Yahtzee]

I know your business plan has flaws and I know your growth potential is finite. Did you know that? Probably not.

Finite....well yes, that is true, assuming we don't start flying to towns like Ardmore, OK, but in the meantime here's a link you might read to give you something else to think about.

http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.comb.perm.html

What happens when we open a new city? More pairing options.

The only thing that is constant is change. Most guys at SWA aren't as arrogant as you think they are.

Yahtz

 

[SWA/FO]

skyboss is a loser..... sorry dude. But your momma still loves you

 

[Slug]

Damn Yahtzee, that hurt my hefenweis filled brain thingy. The math part, that is.

 

[chase]

Yahtze,

I just pulled a muscle reading that website...since I'm on an overnight I'm going OJI thanks to you...:laugh: ...hope all is well for you...call when you get to big D again...cheers,

 

[Yahtzee]

Slug,

I know better...your brain may be filled with hops and barley, but you're called Slug for a reason. It's like calling the family Mastoff 'Tiny'...your gig is up...

Chase...Happy, Happy Holidays! If permutations and combinations hurt, don't click on the link about fuel hedging from the guys at Northwestern....it's about 24 pages long, and chopped full of math.

Go Dawgs! Sic 'Em...Woof! Woof! Woof!

 

[Aplus9]

Yahtz,

I had to stop reading after the title line. Ouch!

 

[vc10]

That's great, and if customers agree with you, then you have nothing to worry about if the Wright Amendment goes away.

The problem with the Wright Amendment is that it doesn't give anyone that choice. Choice (and competition, and everything that flows from that) is the American way (and I mean the United States of America, not the airline). The Wright Amendment is deeply unAmerican.

Short term yes, O&D demand isn't there to warrant it long term which is all that your company serves. I know you think your airline is what is great in the world, but I'd rather see choice of more cities through connecting at DFW than just a choice to Dallas. I know they don't teach you that at Southwest University, but that's what the rest of the planet is here to point out to you and your fellow peanut tossers.

 

[NAA Pilot]

Nope, I'm sure as heck not. Having spent five years growing up in STL and having many friends that flew for TWA, I always saw both sides of the story. Those quotes were made by the APA leadership that set up the deal, not the rank and file. Most of the rank and file felt helpless towards the whole deal, since there was nothing we could do about it. Your pilot group is/was a class act, and I'm not alone in saying that here in "Sky Nazi Land."

Then why did you make this wise as$ comment?

Originally Posted by aa73
Gee, you're not ex TWA, are you?

 

[aa73]

Then why did you make this wise as$ comment?

Originally Posted by aa73
Gee, you're not ex TWA, are you?

For the same reason some of your guys "rattle our cages" a little when we show some AA-bred bitteness... it's gotta go both ways right?
:beer:

 

[NAA Pilot]

For the same reason some of your guys "rattle our cages" a little when we show some AA-bred bitteness... it's gotta go both ways right?
:beer:

Maybe you should try taking the higher road.

And, drop the cheers thing.

 

[NAA Pilot]

January 6th - 13th Round trip

LUV; DAL - MCI 182.60
AMR: DFW - MCI 158.40

 

[aa73]

Maybe you should try taking the higher road.

And, drop the cheers thing.

What! Are you asking me to forego my fun-filled tradition of ribbing my fellow aviators and defaulting to my AA "Sky-Naziness" serious demeanor?

NEVER!

BTW, I have been on the high road for years!

:laugh: ....

:beer:

 

[aa73]

NAA Pilot,

Maybe you are missing my point. I am not in the business of demeaning other pilots or their previous airlines. I am a pretty happy go lucky kind of AA guy (a rarity these days, right?) I like to have fun at work, on this board, in bed with the wife, and just about everywhere I go. I think you're taking me way too seriously.

Do a search of all AA/TWA posts and you'll see a bunch of bitter people, a few that just don't care, and a few that can discuss the issue in a mature way. Overall most of the ex TWA drivers on this board fall in this last category, and most of us AA types do as well. Most of our posts to each other are usually dripping with sarcasm, an occasional jab but for the most part we both realize we wouldn't have wished this merger and its integration on our worst enemy. That said, if you are offended by my above post I'm sorry, but it wasn't intended to demean you guys, yeah?

On the high road,
73

 

[The Prussian]

January 6th - 13th Round trip

LUV; DAL - MCI 182.60
AMR: DFW - MCI 158.40

and your point is.......

All I see here is a legacy carrier doing exactly what they are very good at doing--chopping fares to below cost, to preserve market share at all cost.
Allowing market losses on one or two routes, and subsidizing those losses across the rest of their system...not exactly a new concept nor totally unexpected....

T P

 

[sf260pilot]

and your point is.......

All I see here is a legacy carrier doing exactly what they are very good at doing--chopping fares to below cost, to preserve market share at all cost.
Allowing market losses on one or two routes, and subsidizing those losses across the rest of their system...not exactly a new concept nor totally unexpected....

T P

Anyone know what that same fare was a couple of months ago, when there was no non-stop competetion?

 

[canyonblue]

January 6th - 13th Round trip

LUV; DAL - MCI 182.60
AMR: DFW - MCI 158.40

Man I din't know how you search for fares but the price on those days is really
$153.90

source....

Southwest Airlines Air Itinerary and Pricing

Air Itinerary Trip Date Day Stops Routing Flight Routing Details
Depart Jan 06FriN/SDAL-MCI1276Depart Dallas (DAL) at 8:50 AM
Arrive in Kansas City (MCI) at 10:20 AM Return Jan 13FriN/SMCI-DAL2430
Depart Kansas City (MCI) at 6:45 AM
Arrive in Dallas (DAL) at 8:25 AM
PricingPassenger
TypeTripRoutingType of FareBase FareU.S.
TaxesPFCSecurity

$153.90