Would you...

[Phaedrus]

until I get on with a company like FedEx or UPS. Maybe even Southwest

Let's hope you're good at staying anonymous.

 

[aa73]

Skaff, I would most definitely make the jump. I can only speak from my experiences, but as good as ACA was, it was still a regional with that dreaded "regional mentality." You know, always wondering whose flying we'll do next, the RJ debate, that "second class citizen" status we carried around us, the shoddy IAD operation, etc. When I jumped ship to a major, the differences were appalling to say the least. Now, this was a good seven years ago when we didn't have the problems we did today, but still..... you have to realize that the problems we have today have been happening every decade or so - with the exception of dissapearing pension plans. (My airline, AA still has it but I'm sure it'll be up for discussion in this next contract.)

That said, you have to make the jump for the right reasons. If you just have big jet envy and screw the rest, something tells me you won't be too happy. You have to do it as a long term investment - because jumping to a major WILL pay off long term compared to a regional, several thousand dollars' worth if not a million or more. And you have to do it with two things in mind, days off and quality of life. Those two things are the only things you will worry about long term because believe me, big jet syndrome does not last long at all. In the end, it's all about good time off and good flexible work rules that allow you to maximize your time off while preserving maximum pay. That is the payoff for all that time away from home.

And while $100K is indeed good money for a regional, that's only third year pay at a couple of majors, and not that far off for the rest, while still F/O. When you make CA, you'll be looking at $125-150K as a minimum, depending on the airline. As you can see, the ROI pays off after a few years. Granted, it'll take you a few years to catch up with what you're making now - but like I said, if you're in a position to do it, it'll pay off long term.

good luck w/ your decision,
73

 

[Palomino]

i enjoyed the feeder flying. and i made nice money with great days off and vacation at XJT. however, i got on there at a great time and rode a nice attrition wave. that's why i had the cushy life.

the majors are no different. the big variable in the mix is the age of the pilot group. right now, CAL has a lot of retirements. combine that with moderate growth and it's made life easy on the newhire pilot from a scheduling perspective. it usually takes longer at a major to reach the level of the 'seniority cushion' that your sitting on right now. and it usually involves a lot less work than you are doing right now. i average about 2 legs a day on most of my trips. it's a nice change from the 20-minute turn hustle of the feeder life.

it's up to you and your family what path you take. as one person has already mentioned: i enjoyed my time at the feeders, but i would not go back unless forced to. too many unknowns at the feeder level. i'd rather start gaining seniority (for vacation, retirement, passes, etc) at a major rather than camping on a feeder airline seniority list.

good news is that there are finally some choices available. the number one thing you need to do is apply and be ready. nothing will happen if you don't submit your application.

good luck

 

[Skaff]

Thanks for your thoughts. Any Northwest guys want to pipe up. Seems like CAL guys are relatively happy.

 

[737ski]

SWA guy that is VERY happy. Come to the $$$ side...

 

[Going2Baja]

X-NWA here. Had two years before furlough. No plan on going back. VERY glad to drive to work now. Won't miss flying the heavy's. The bigger the jet - the further from home you go. NWA trips can go 6 days on narrow body and 10 on wide (Not sure the sched today.) If your don't mind a DTW or MSP commute or you are local, this legacy will be back by the end of your career. Don't be short sided and only look at the pay/work rules now, they will get better.

Good luck....Baja.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Congrats... but that'd put you just above the public assistance line for a family of four in my neck of the woods.

BBB

BBB, you live in the most expensive place in the country (except for maybe New York Dump). The guy might live in Iowa.

 

[Frac Cap]

Skaff, I am having the same questions in my mind about United. This is the hard question, you say you made last year and will make this year over 100K. So for arguments lets say you are at $105K. The first year at United you will make $32, but then you have to subtract the hotel bill for the month of training. So now you are really at $30K for the first year, which puts you $75k in the hole for the first year. The second year you are at $50k on the 737. Now you are $130k in the hole. Third year I am sure it's a bit optimistic, but lets say United gets a new contract with a 20% bump. That puts you now at around $88K and $150K in the hole (I assume in three years you would be at $108).

Now I don't include interest on the money you are loosing, but at 5% and $150 in the hole by year 3, that starts to add up to an amount that I don't know how you could recover if the fo on the 737 tops out at 91K after 12 years. Now granted you can give up quality of life to get into the 767 for a small bump in pay. But If the age 65 comes to pass, and I feel it will, the left seat is farther off and all the time you would still be going into the hole.

I don't want to come off negative, but this is the same dilemma I have to figure out myself. What is the carrot that I don't see. Is it wise to sacrifice the present, for a potential future payoff? If there would be a pay off, when would the break even point be. I don't have these answers, but like you, I am asking everyone I know to help me find them.

Current UAL pilots, please chime in. Tell me what I don't know and cant see.

 

[Frac Cap]

Beauuuuler, Beauuuuler,.....anyone?.....anyone?

 

[Alcatraz]

Another thing to think about... and I don't want to trigger any insecurity... but just how stable and comfortable is your current job NOW? Just because things have been the same for the last several years at your job... or things have improved... doesn't mean they won't suddenly take a dive. Just ask the Piedmont (the feeder) guys, or the ACA/Indy guys how secure their job was before things got messy.

My point is, you may not be taking as much additional risk by going to the bottom of a major's seniority list as you may think... so why not make the jump?

I left my regional (SYX) for ATA, knowing there was a decent chance of getting furloughed (I was correct). I still consider it a good career move... it got me experience I wouldn't get at a regional, it kept me in the interview mode, and I didn't get comfortable. And while it was stressful, my friends at SYX are currently wondering how much longer they'll be in business no matter the seniority.

But be picky... don't just jump ship for the sake of jumping ship. Don't run to Frontier, for example, if you plan on commuting from Maine! But, yes, there are better jobs out there than being a senior regional captain that you can attain in a few years. (I DO NOT want to brag, but this year as a second year FO at SWA I'll be just shy of $100k, and I average almost four days off a week). Schedule flexibility is a big thing that I never realized until I went to a major (ATA or SWA)... so add that to the list of things that most major airline jobs will have over a regional job.

So are you thoroughly confused now?