Hey there, I'm looking for a little help...please leave the sarcasm at the door. I'm currently flying RJ's for a regional right now, I enjoy what I do and I like the company that I work for. I work hard and I work a lot, but I'll make over $100,000 this year again. What I'm wondering is, knowing what you know now...and if you were in a position to apply for a major or legacy, would you choose to work where you're currently working. I see so many pickets and flyers that tell about poor management that I would like to get info from the inside before I apply. I would like to hear specifically from United and Northwest guys, but all please feel free to answer.
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IAHERJ
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I'll be honest here. YES. I loved the regional I worked for. I loved AirTran, but I love my current job even more(Continental). That being said, I hate a lot of things about our contract. I chose to gripe about them from time to time on this board and the private Continental board. Many on here do the same with their airlines. What you get from it must seem like a lot of angry major airline pilots. In reality, you have a lot of guys frustrated about the current state of their airline and or the industry.
Ask just about every one of the guys you see on this site complaining about their respective major airline if he/she would go back to the regional they previously flew for and you will get a resounding "no". I am in no way trying to belittle regional pilots as I was one and loved the experience. I just think most of us got into this to end up flying the big iron to places far from home with nice hot meals served by fun flight attendants that you hang out with on long layovers. This can still happen at the majors. Trust me. Let's address the two airlines you are interested in:
United: Hiring and expect movement over the next few years and possible new aircraft order in the next 5 years. Route map is impressive and you will probably get a chance to fly the 747. What else can you say? Don't concentrate on the current work rules and pay rates as those will change for the better.
Northwest: Hiring 40 a month beginning in October. 747's brand new A-330's and orders for the 787. You get the chance to start your career on one hell of an aircraft(DC-9) that you will enjoy flying and will be the basis for comparison for all the aircraft you fly for the rest of your career. They have 5th freedom rights most other carriers only dream about and will thus spring back from the current negative state they operate in. Probably more movement as far as retirements over the next 10 years as well. I like NWA for the long haul.
Delta is hiring and they give you the opportunity to fly widebodies domestically very quickly. That is just about as good as it gets. Lots of Europe flying and strong domestic network combined with new aircraft comming and more to be ordered. I think the General said they are ordering 800 787's or something.. Seriously, a great choice should you be lucky enough to get an interview.
Continental has been discussed a lot on this board. where else can someone on property less than 2 years hold captain at a major? It is only a brief opportunity for a lucky few who made it on at a certain time when mandatory retirements forced guys off the list. Continental is a great airline that will improve the working conditions very soon for pilots.
In summary, I really think that you will be happy leaving your regional(as happy as you are) and taking the leap. You didn't get into this business to stay there for a career. Get on now while the carriers are turning themselves around and reap the benefits in a few years when others are finally realizing that the traditional carriers are still the best bet.
my .02 cents.
IAHERJ
Ask just about every one of the guys you see on this site complaining about their respective major airline if he/she would go back to the regional they previously flew for and you will get a resounding "no". I am in no way trying to belittle regional pilots as I was one and loved the experience. I just think most of us got into this to end up flying the big iron to places far from home with nice hot meals served by fun flight attendants that you hang out with on long layovers. This can still happen at the majors. Trust me. Let's address the two airlines you are interested in:
United: Hiring and expect movement over the next few years and possible new aircraft order in the next 5 years. Route map is impressive and you will probably get a chance to fly the 747. What else can you say? Don't concentrate on the current work rules and pay rates as those will change for the better.
Northwest: Hiring 40 a month beginning in October. 747's brand new A-330's and orders for the 787. You get the chance to start your career on one hell of an aircraft(DC-9) that you will enjoy flying and will be the basis for comparison for all the aircraft you fly for the rest of your career. They have 5th freedom rights most other carriers only dream about and will thus spring back from the current negative state they operate in. Probably more movement as far as retirements over the next 10 years as well. I like NWA for the long haul.
Delta is hiring and they give you the opportunity to fly widebodies domestically very quickly. That is just about as good as it gets. Lots of Europe flying and strong domestic network combined with new aircraft comming and more to be ordered. I think the General said they are ordering 800 787's or something.. Seriously, a great choice should you be lucky enough to get an interview.
Continental has been discussed a lot on this board. where else can someone on property less than 2 years hold captain at a major? It is only a brief opportunity for a lucky few who made it on at a certain time when mandatory retirements forced guys off the list. Continental is a great airline that will improve the working conditions very soon for pilots.
In summary, I really think that you will be happy leaving your regional(as happy as you are) and taking the leap. You didn't get into this business to stay there for a career. Get on now while the carriers are turning themselves around and reap the benefits in a few years when others are finally realizing that the traditional carriers are still the best bet.
my .02 cents.
IAHERJ
Last edited:
Whine Lover
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Pocono Pilot
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Whiskerbizkit
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Big Beer Belly
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Congrats... but that'd put you just above the public assistance line for a family of four in my neck of the woods. Most of our firefighters earn more annually and retire at 50 with 90% of their salaries and 100% medical for life. Times have changed, but pilot salaries have not.
Not a slam on you... just some perspective.
BBB
Dizel8
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Originally Posted by Pocono Pilot
I agree.
With all the retirements, CAL could be the most secure major out there. Also, there is a good chance that CAL will be the highest paid eventually with a new contract.
I hope to be there soon.
Last edited:
Green Banana
Request Direct Honolulu..
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True flavor of the week statement. I bet you were not saying that in 99 when these three were at the bottom. The only constant is change in contracts and airlines.
samballs
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Skaff, I would most definitely make the jump. I can only speak from my experiences, but as good as ACA was, it was still a regional with that dreaded "regional mentality." You know, always wondering whose flying we'll do next, the RJ debate, that "second class citizen" status we carried around us, the shoddy IAD operation, etc. When I jumped ship to a major, the differences were appalling to say the least. Now, this was a good seven years ago when we didn't have the problems we did today, but still..... you have to realize that the problems we have today have been happening every decade or so - with the exception of dissapearing pension plans. (My airline, AA still has it but I'm sure it'll be up for discussion in this next contract.)
That said, you have to make the jump for the right reasons. If you just have big jet envy and screw the rest, something tells me you won't be too happy. You have to do it as a long term investment - because jumping to a major WILL pay off long term compared to a regional, several thousand dollars' worth if not a million or more. And you have to do it with two things in mind, days off and quality of life. Those two things are the only things you will worry about long term because believe me, big jet syndrome does not last long at all. In the end, it's all about good time off and good flexible work rules that allow you to maximize your time off while preserving maximum pay. That is the payoff for all that time away from home.
And while $100K is indeed good money for a regional, that's only third year pay at a couple of majors, and not that far off for the rest, while still F/O. When you make CA, you'll be looking at $125-150K as a minimum, depending on the airline. As you can see, the ROI pays off after a few years. Granted, it'll take you a few years to catch up with what you're making now - but like I said, if you're in a position to do it, it'll pay off long term.
good luck w/ your decision,
73
That said, you have to make the jump for the right reasons. If you just have big jet envy and screw the rest, something tells me you won't be too happy. You have to do it as a long term investment - because jumping to a major WILL pay off long term compared to a regional, several thousand dollars' worth if not a million or more. And you have to do it with two things in mind, days off and quality of life. Those two things are the only things you will worry about long term because believe me, big jet syndrome does not last long at all. In the end, it's all about good time off and good flexible work rules that allow you to maximize your time off while preserving maximum pay. That is the payoff for all that time away from home.
And while $100K is indeed good money for a regional, that's only third year pay at a couple of majors, and not that far off for the rest, while still F/O. When you make CA, you'll be looking at $125-150K as a minimum, depending on the airline. As you can see, the ROI pays off after a few years. Granted, it'll take you a few years to catch up with what you're making now - but like I said, if you're in a position to do it, it'll pay off long term.
good luck w/ your decision,
73
Palomino
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i enjoyed the feeder flying. and i made nice money with great days off and vacation at XJT. however, i got on there at a great time and rode a nice attrition wave. that's why i had the cushy life.
the majors are no different. the big variable in the mix is the age of the pilot group. right now, CAL has a lot of retirements. combine that with moderate growth and it's made life easy on the newhire pilot from a scheduling perspective. it usually takes longer at a major to reach the level of the 'seniority cushion' that your sitting on right now. and it usually involves a lot less work than you are doing right now. i average about 2 legs a day on most of my trips. it's a nice change from the 20-minute turn hustle of the feeder life.
it's up to you and your family what path you take. as one person has already mentioned: i enjoyed my time at the feeders, but i would not go back unless forced to. too many unknowns at the feeder level. i'd rather start gaining seniority (for vacation, retirement, passes, etc) at a major rather than camping on a feeder airline seniority list.
good news is that there are finally some choices available. the number one thing you need to do is apply and be ready. nothing will happen if you don't submit your application.
good luck
the majors are no different. the big variable in the mix is the age of the pilot group. right now, CAL has a lot of retirements. combine that with moderate growth and it's made life easy on the newhire pilot from a scheduling perspective. it usually takes longer at a major to reach the level of the 'seniority cushion' that your sitting on right now. and it usually involves a lot less work than you are doing right now. i average about 2 legs a day on most of my trips. it's a nice change from the 20-minute turn hustle of the feeder life.
it's up to you and your family what path you take. as one person has already mentioned: i enjoyed my time at the feeders, but i would not go back unless forced to. too many unknowns at the feeder level. i'd rather start gaining seniority (for vacation, retirement, passes, etc) at a major rather than camping on a feeder airline seniority list.
good news is that there are finally some choices available. the number one thing you need to do is apply and be ready. nothing will happen if you don't submit your application.
good luck
Going2Baja
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X-NWA here. Had two years before furlough. No plan on going back. VERY glad to drive to work now. Won't miss flying the heavy's. The bigger the jet - the further from home you go. NWA trips can go 6 days on narrow body and 10 on wide (Not sure the sched today.) If your don't mind a DTW or MSP commute or you are local, this legacy will be back by the end of your career. Don't be short sided and only look at the pay/work rules now, they will get better.
Good luck....Baja.
Good luck....Baja.
capt. megadeth
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BBB, you live in the most expensive place in the country (except for maybe New York Dump). The guy might live in Iowa.
Frac Cap
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Skaff, I am having the same questions in my mind about United. This is the hard question, you say you made last year and will make this year over 100K. So for arguments lets say you are at $105K. The first year at United you will make $32, but then you have to subtract the hotel bill for the month of training. So now you are really at $30K for the first year, which puts you $75k in the hole for the first year. The second year you are at $50k on the 737. Now you are $130k in the hole. Third year I am sure it's a bit optimistic, but lets say United gets a new contract with a 20% bump. That puts you now at around $88K and $150K in the hole (I assume in three years you would be at $108).
Now I don't include interest on the money you are loosing, but at 5% and $150 in the hole by year 3, that starts to add up to an amount that I don't know how you could recover if the fo on the 737 tops out at 91K after 12 years. Now granted you can give up quality of life to get into the 767 for a small bump in pay. But If the age 65 comes to pass, and I feel it will, the left seat is farther off and all the time you would still be going into the hole.
I don't want to come off negative, but this is the same dilemma I have to figure out myself. What is the carrot that I don't see. Is it wise to sacrifice the present, for a potential future payoff? If there would be a pay off, when would the break even point be. I don't have these answers, but like you, I am asking everyone I know to help me find them.
Current UAL pilots, please chime in. Tell me what I don't know and cant see.
Now I don't include interest on the money you are loosing, but at 5% and $150 in the hole by year 3, that starts to add up to an amount that I don't know how you could recover if the fo on the 737 tops out at 91K after 12 years. Now granted you can give up quality of life to get into the 767 for a small bump in pay. But If the age 65 comes to pass, and I feel it will, the left seat is farther off and all the time you would still be going into the hole.
I don't want to come off negative, but this is the same dilemma I have to figure out myself. What is the carrot that I don't see. Is it wise to sacrifice the present, for a potential future payoff? If there would be a pay off, when would the break even point be. I don't have these answers, but like you, I am asking everyone I know to help me find them.
Current UAL pilots, please chime in. Tell me what I don't know and cant see.
Another thing to think about... and I don't want to trigger any insecurity... but just how stable and comfortable is your current job NOW? Just because things have been the same for the last several years at your job... or things have improved... doesn't mean they won't suddenly take a dive. Just ask the Piedmont (the feeder) guys, or the ACA/Indy guys how secure their job was before things got messy.
My point is, you may not be taking as much additional risk by going to the bottom of a major's seniority list as you may think... so why not make the jump?
I left my regional (SYX) for ATA, knowing there was a decent chance of getting furloughed (I was correct). I still consider it a good career move... it got me experience I wouldn't get at a regional, it kept me in the interview mode, and I didn't get comfortable. And while it was stressful, my friends at SYX are currently wondering how much longer they'll be in business no matter the seniority.
But be picky... don't just jump ship for the sake of jumping ship. Don't run to Frontier, for example, if you plan on commuting from Maine! But, yes, there are better jobs out there than being a senior regional captain that you can attain in a few years. (I DO NOT want to brag, but this year as a second year FO at SWA I'll be just shy of $100k, and I average almost four days off a week). Schedule flexibility is a big thing that I never realized until I went to a major (ATA or SWA)... so add that to the list of things that most major airline jobs will have over a regional job.
So are you thoroughly confused now?
My point is, you may not be taking as much additional risk by going to the bottom of a major's seniority list as you may think... so why not make the jump?
I left my regional (SYX) for ATA, knowing there was a decent chance of getting furloughed (I was correct). I still consider it a good career move... it got me experience I wouldn't get at a regional, it kept me in the interview mode, and I didn't get comfortable. And while it was stressful, my friends at SYX are currently wondering how much longer they'll be in business no matter the seniority.
But be picky... don't just jump ship for the sake of jumping ship. Don't run to Frontier, for example, if you plan on commuting from Maine! But, yes, there are better jobs out there than being a senior regional captain that you can attain in a few years. (I DO NOT want to brag, but this year as a second year FO at SWA I'll be just shy of $100k, and I average almost four days off a week). Schedule flexibility is a big thing that I never realized until I went to a major (ATA or SWA)... so add that to the list of things that most major airline jobs will have over a regional job.
So are you thoroughly confused now?
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