Will The AirTran Pilots' Windfall Be A Consideration?

[Max Powers]

I'm sure that nobody will lose their
Relative seniority or their
captain seats if it goes to
Arbitration.

There will be no "Seat Grab"
Windfall for sw pilots.

Agreed these fear mongering Fox news watching, SWA types on here like s3 and others are wishing for a windfall from airtran and a cpt seat grab....not going to happen.

Like it or not it's going to be Relative seniority.

 

[Cometman]

Agreed these fear mongering Fox news watching, SWA types on here like s3 and others are wishing for a windfall from airtran and a cpt seat grab....not going to happen.

Like it or not it's going to be Relative seniority.

Keep dreaming young man. Just like a staple will most likely not happen neither will relative seniority. Unless it is in Atlanta with a 6 foot fence with no growth for about 5-8 years.

 

[ASADFW7]

deleted

 

[chase]

Folks,

Can we all agree that no one knows how it will fall out completely. Expressing our views on the topic is like rendering an opinion on which of your neighbor's children is the ugliest. While they may agree with you ability to judge beauty with your choice, they surely aren't going to agree with you publicly and will most likely voice their opinions strongly. After all it is family.

At the point SWA and AAI combine officially and seniority lists are combined we will be one airline. That day is closer today than it was on Sept 27 and as we get closer to that day, comments said to others (not just on the forums) that are culture killers can take hold and aren't so easily dismissed.

Express your views suggestions, recommendations to your NC folks and use other energies toward looking beyond the merger date and how SWA can fulfill the synergies necessary to meet our expectations of future growth as a result of the merger.

Focus on the future of post-SLI/merger dates and take the angst out of predicting the near future vs. postulating on the long term which will have far more impact on each of our financial health.

Or not......

Just watched my grand-child's first birthday party over skype and the perspective is one worth sharing....far more important things in life than an SLI debate IMHO.

 

[Ty Webb]

Agreed.

 

[waveflyer]

Well said chase

 

[Malcolm]

You are a voice of reason my friend! Good post...

 

[Full of LUV]

Just watched my grand-child's first birthday party over skype and the perspective is one worth sharing....far more important things in life than an SLI debate IMHO.

First of all Congrats! Second of all, with all due respect, as an 11yr SWA Captain, not worrying about how this SLI turns out is a luxury that many don't have..... Just like the birth of your granddaughter has given you a different PERSPECTIVE on life, so too does your seniority give you a different PERSPECTIVE on the SLI outcome.
LUV

 

[shootr]

+1

shootr

 

[chase]

First of all Congrats! Second of all, with all due respect, as an 11yr SWA Captain, not worrying about how this SLI turns out is a luxury that many don't have..... Just like the birth of your granddaughter has given you a different PERSPECTIVE on life, so too does your seniority give you a different PERSPECTIVE on the SLI outcome.
LUV

FOL,

Thanks for the congrats. My apologies if I gave the impression that any pilot at AAI or SWA should not be engaged or have an opinion on the topic or that as a CA I'm not engaged or interested. I most certainly do care and have expressed those thoughts to the appropriate persons. Doing it as emotionally and forcefully on public forums is opposite of what has been asked of both pilot groups. Resectful debate and inquiry, yes; laying down ultimatums or absolutes is not in either groups best interest IMHO...no offense taken I hope.

When I arrived at SWA in '99, those before me built an incredible airline and in turn provided me with a very secure standard of living. Those earlier groups made many controversial decisions, Morris Air, "B" scale votes, optioins in lieu of pay in '94, etc. Many opposed these and many other decisions (and still do). Yet judged from a historical perspective, I believe SWA and SWAPA made the right call.

My hope and is that when I retire I can look back and say that I've done no less for those coming behind me. The SLI and the attitudes associated with the merger will be a significant part of that cumulative culture and can only be accurately judged post-merger. Drawing lines in the sand in a pre-SLI environment could be counterproductive to the post-SLI environment when our culture will be most tested in the eyes of some.

Persons at the top of the seniority list have no more or no less ability to alter the SLI than those at the bottom. It could be argued that the long term culture of SWA lies more in the hands of the lower half of the seniority than the top half in terms of how the culture evolves since they will be at SWA longer. That doesn't negate the influence of the left seat in setting a tone that is positive for all groups and sensitive to the different realities faced by those in the right seat. Merely because one hasn't lived the life doesn't mean one can not empathize or respect the impact those changes can and are having.

For the first time ever FO's make up the majority of the NC and M&A team. I believe that is great, their talent is obvious. Their future is in their hands and in how the SLI is communicated and responded to by the members.

I want my grandson to fly on SWA or even come to work at SWA in the future for the same reasons I came to SWA. I'm as concerned and interested as I was when I arrived and will remain so because I want the company and its employees to prosper.

It can if all employee groups remain focused on the mission of safety, customer service, productivity while SWA leadership deals with the internal issues and makes sound business decisions that benefits all employees.

My apologies for the drivel...retreating backwards toward more lurking vs. posting....hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and happy holiday. Keeping Christ in Christmas (hopefully) will do more than Democrats or Republicans ever will! God Bless.

 

[shootr]

Airtran could have done better than SWA as a purchaser...Facebook could have bought them.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/14/be...adership-careers-survey.html?partner=yahootix

Now don't get all offended. I didn't write the article.

shootr

 

[ivauir]

I'm not in anyone's back pocket. Ty was already given a warning a week ago for direct insults, and I've already suspended two other AirTran pilots for doing the same with profanity.

I disagree.

Your bias on this issue is blindingly obvious. It is inappropriate for you to both participate in the debate and moderate it. I will not be intimidated into silence.

I know you don't like my opinions on the SLI issues. That's fine. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. But to attack my moderating because I don't agree with you isn't acceptable. Harassing the moderators is not allowed. If you don't like the way we moderate, email the webmaster. If he doesn't respond, then he obviously agrees with us.

Nice spin. I am not "attacking" your moderating nor am I harassing you. I didn't even mention your name ...

Disagreeing with you isn't harassment. On the other hand, squelching dissent over a clear conflict of interest is very heavy handed and pretty much proves my point.

 

[27 driver]

Well said, and good advice. We are all just trying to exert a little control over a process we have no control over. Oddly enough, though, the debate can be therapeutic. But we do have to keep in mind that we will all be on the same team at the end of this. And from my experience on your jump-seats, I think the two groups will fit well together. The first round's on me for all AAI folks, but I'm only buying Ty domestic beer!

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

Amen PapaWoody,

This will be a marathon not a sprint. There will be ups and downs and yes there will be some people feeling like they got screwed when it is all said and done. SLI's are never perfect. Us Joe line pilot types need to let our elected reps hash this out behind closed doors then present the results. Like you said we will all be on the same team eventually and will all do our best to fuel the LUV Machine.
Cheers

 

[ivauir]

+1

27 driver

 

[SWA/FO]

What round will Ty be drafted in?

Welcome to the TrannyDraft 2011....

Tood McShay says "my guess, he is a late 6th rounder."

Mel Kiper Jr. (laughing) says he has some work to do before even "dreaming" about the next level.

Asked if he is good enough to play on the A team every Sunday, Kiper said he can "absolutely see him working on Saturday and Sunday, as long as he works on his attitude and Luv aspect of his game"

Kiper then added, that he sees "about 5800 better picks, before he would take a chance on Ty."

An NFL Owner recently said "I might make him (Ty) my 5801st pick and see what he has to offer in training camp or just assign him to the practice squad" "Its an unknown, does this kid have any sense of LUV for the game or has his Agent got to him already?"

 

[Ty Webb]

PW-

Your comment about buying me a domestic beer got me thinking . . . It was sort of like the stages of thinking about the SLI:

1) Free Beer! :beer:

2) Drink it with who? :erm:

3) Domestic?

4) Hope it's cold, or it's gonna taste like horse piss! uke:

5) Should probably be gracious and accept domestic beer

6) Lots of micro brews are domestic!

7) Fat Tire is domestic, and Alaskan Amber, and Shiner and . . .

8) Sure, PW, I'll drink a beer with ya! :beer:

So, in the end, SLI will be like a beer. Might be a domestic beer, but you can probably find one you like.

 

[Ty Webb]

What round will Ty be drafted in?

Welcome to the TrannyDraft 2011....

Tood McShay says "my guess, he is a late 6th rounder."

Mel Kiper Jr. (laughing) says he has some work to do before even "dreaming" about the next level.

Asked if he is good enough to play on the A team every Sunday, Kiper said he can "absolutely see him working on Saturday and Sunday, as long as he works on his attitude and Luv aspect of his game"

Kiper then added, that he sees "about 5800 better picks, before he would take a chance on Ty."

An NFL Owner recently said "I might make him (Ty) my 5801st pick and see what he has to offer in training camp or just assign him to the practice squad" "Its an unknown, does this kid have any sense of LUV for the game or has his Agent got to him already?"

"It is important to note that, in regards to SWA, Kiper does not have actual coaching or playing experience, and has been able to designate himself an expert simply by saying so, loudly, many times, without anyone questioning it.

His protege, SWA/FO seems to have been cut from the same piece of bad polyester fabric, cloned from the same wart cell, or spawned from the sack of the same whale". :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

I disagree.

Your bias on this issue is blindingly obvious. It is inappropriate for you to both participate in the debate and moderate it. I will not be intimidated into silence.

The other moderators and website owner, none of which work for either company or are people I know outside this forum, disagree with you, and those are the only people I answer to on this forum. You are welcome to your opinion. You are NOT, however, welcome to keep making digs about it.

There's no "intimidation", just instructing you to abide by the instructions and decisions of the website owner and moderators per the Terms of Service.

Nice spin. I am not "attacking" your moderating nor am I harassing you. I didn't even mention your name ...

You didn't have to. There are only 5 moderators on this site, 2 are inactive due to other issues, and you've repeatedly called me out about it in the past 60 days and haven't said anything about other moderators.

Everyone knew who you were talking about. Your attempts to side-step that are painfully transparent and, quite frankly, disingenuous. The fact that you have now returned to your previous discussions on my moderating points out that you WERE, in fact, speaking of me in your earlier post yesterday when you made an accusation out of the blue about "being in someone's pocket".

Disagreeing with you isn't harassment. On the other hand, squelching dissent over a clear conflict of interest is very heavy handed and pretty much proves my point.

I didn't squelch anything. The WEBSITE OWNER shut down that thread. The only thing I did was delete posts that were ToS violations, give warnings and/or suspensions for those violations, and offer to email the posters the portions of their posts that were NOT ToS violations so they could repost them without the offending material. I did that for BOTH AirTran and Southwest pilots alike.

Sorry you can't see that.

/mod

 

[PapaWoody]

PW-

Your comment about buying me a domestic beer got me thinking . . . It was sort of like the stages of thinking about the SLI:

1) Free Beer! :beer:

2) Drink it with who? :erm:

3) Domestic?

4) Hope it's cold, or it's gonna taste like horse piss! uke:

5) Should probably be gracious and accept domestic beer

6) Lots of micro brews are domestic!

7) Fat Tire is domestic, and Alaskan Amber, and Shiner and . . .

8) Sure, PW, I'll drink a beer with ya! :beer:

So, in the end, SLI will be like a beer. Might be a domestic beer, but you can probably find one you like.

There are some mighty fine domestic micro-brews on tap at the Monarch in PDX. An' onry 2 dolla! See ya there! :beer:

PW

 

[texman]

Alaskan Amber on tap in sea rocks.

 

[ivauir]

You are NOT, however, welcome to keep making digs about it.

I wasn't addressing you. I didn't mention you. Perhaps you are so sensitive because it is intuitively obvious that you cannot objectively moderate a discussion while passionately participating in it. Your defensiveness speaks volumes.

 

[waveflyer]

I wasn't addressing you. I didn't mention you. Perhaps you are so sensitive because it is intuitively obvious that you cannot objectively moderate a discussion while passionately participating in it. Your defensiveness speaks volumes.

Dude- let it go/ there are rules- they apply

 

[Lear70]

I wasn't addressing you. I didn't mention you. Perhaps you are so sensitive because it is intuitively obvious that you cannot objectively moderate a discussion while passionately participating in it. Your defensiveness speaks volumes.

There have been no other moderators involved in any of the SWA-AAI discussions, with the exception of one entry by Clr4TheApch yesterday.

Your continued attempts to defer to some other "mystery moderator" are transparent and speak volumes of their own.

As far as contributing to discussions, with the exception of the occasional comment here and there, I have pretty much stayed out of all of them the last several weeks and plan to continue doing so. Thank you for your concern...

Regards,

 

[The Prussian]

What round will Ty be drafted in?

Welcome to the TrannyDraft 2011....

Tood McShay says "my guess, he is a late 6th rounder."

Mel Kiper Jr. (laughing) says he has some work to do before even "dreaming" about the next level.

Asked if he is good enough to play on the A team every Sunday, Kiper said he can "absolutely see him working on Saturday and Sunday, as long as he works on his attitude and Luv aspect of his game"

Kiper then added, that he sees "about 5800 better picks, before he would take a chance on Ty."

An NFL Owner recently said "I might make him (Ty) my 5801st pick and see what he has to offer in training camp or just assign him to the practice squad" "Its an unknown, does this kid have any sense of LUV for the game or has his Agent got to him already?"

Here's my take...

Ty and KP....

"I gotta do something here, I still can't believe it. I gotta give you your dream shot! I'm gonna send you up <with> the best. You two characters are going to <Southwest>.
And if you screw up just this much, you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog sh*t out of Hong Kong!"

 

[ivauir]

Lear,

I wasn't trying to call you out ... I was participating a completely different debate with one of your current coworkers. A debate that you have effectively derailed by intervening for no particular reason except maybe defending your pride ... again, your name was never mentioned. If you think it was implied one can only wonder:

"What it is you feel so guilty about?"

As long as an AAI pilot moderates SWA/AAI related threads there will be a perceived conflict of interest. You can deal with it up front and recuse yourself or you can leave lingering doubts.

Given your authority in this venue this is a pretty one sided debate, isn't it?

Your power as a moderator lets you silence criticism. That is where this is going. Isn't it? I can read between the lines. We all can.

But I won't be intimidated into doing it for you.

 

[Lear70]

I think I liked your first response better. At least it gave us a place to start from:

Lear,

Given your authority in this venue this is a pretty one sided debate, isn't it?

That's the problem bro. You seem like decent and intelligent person. Can you not see the problem with trying to to fairly moderate a debate while participating in it?

Actually, yes, I do see the problem. It's why I've backed off posting in most of these threads (not to mention I don't think the hostility gets us anywhere). I'll still chime in from time to time if it's something no one else is mentioning and I think it's important or it's something humorous or especially poignant that I'm giving kudos to someone about, but other than that, I'm trying to stay off these topics.

Lear,

I wasn't trying to call you out ... I was participating a completely different debate with one of your current coworkers. A debate that you have effectively derailed by intervening for no particular reason except maybe defending your pride ... again, your name was never mentioned. If you think it was implied one can only wonder:

I think you're forgetting your response that triggered my first post to you about it. When you allege out of the blue that Ty's comments stayed because he "has the moderator in his pocket"... well, I don't think anyone for a moment had any doubt who you were referring to. So don't try to put this on me.

As long as an AAI pilot moderates SWA/AAI related threads there will be a perceived conflict of interest. You can deal with it up front and recuse yourself or you can leave lingering doubts.

Granted, that's why I had a conversation in the Moderator's lounge with the other moderators and the website owner and why I've backed out of posting in most of these threads except for an occasional comment here and there (although that's not what they suggested; they had no problem with the way I was posting and moderating, it was MY decision to back off the posting).

Given your authority in this venue this is a pretty one sided debate, isn't it?

Not really, no. We're both still here, having this conversation, although I should have put a stop to it about 3 posts back. I'm bending over backwards NOT to start pruning your posts on this subject or putting you in the penalty box, even though that's what we've done to countless OTHER members who can't follow directions from the website owner and moderators.

Your power as a moderator lets you silence criticism. That is where this is going. Isn't it? I can read between the lines. We all can.

But I won't be intimidated into doing it for you.

No one's intimidating you into doing anything. I'm asking you to follow the policies set forth by the website owner and ALL the moderators in not going after the mods for the way we police the board.

Again, I'm sorry if you don't understand why. Hopefully one day we will all be able to look back on this and have a chuckle or two over a frosty beverage,,,

 

[waveflyer]

"Given your authority"
Oh good god- WTF do you think he's going to do? Stop your cathartic meaningless rant on an anonymous forum- if you didn't see it on the other thread:

"Blogging
Never before have so many people with so little to say said so much to so few."

Congrats Lear- you are now a man of great authoritay

 

[Lear70]

RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!!

Oh,,, wait,,, that's my MEC Vice-Chair's line...

(couldn't resist man, I heard about your door name tag from F.E. at the LEC meeting Monday).

 

[SWA/FO]

TY, that fool "Kiper" didn't even go to college. He probably makes more then both of us, nice gig.

 

[roughneck]

(couldn't resist man, I heard about your door name tag from F.E. at the LEC meeting Monday).

I heard the LEC meeting was a bloodbath. I'm guessing Linden won't keep secrets from the LEC anymore.