Will The AirTran Pilots' Windfall Be A Consideration?

[Ty Webb]

Is it a nouveau riche thing? I was raised to not talk about money around mixed company

Uh-huh . . . :laugh:

 

[General Lee]

Between two profitable, growing companies with similar fleet types? Pray, do tell.

Ty,

These SWA guys just can't see it. Regardless of what you type, they won't believe it. Your two companies are both similar, with similar plane types and game plans. (LCCs) SWA is larger and pays more, but that was the same with DL and NWA, and guess what? It was pretty much relative seniority. Throw in some fences, and I have a feeling you will stay Captain. And, arbitrators will eventually figure out the SLI, regardless of what Chase or others say about trying to do it inhouse. Letting a "neutral" do it is the only fair way, and your lawyers will do the fighting for you. Just remember to tell the SWA guys "hey, it was just business. No hard feelings." I still expect the top 300-400 spots to go all SWA, and then relative after that.

Regardless, EVERY SWA AND AT PILOT IS AWESOME. Keep rocking it!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ivauir]

Between two profitable, growing companies with similar fleet types? Pray, do tell.

Ty,

Is this really a constructive exercise?

Do you really want to compare profitability? Would you like to argue about the "similarity" of the fleets? Comparing your mostly 717 fleet to our fleet might not be a path that favors your case friend. But it is especially apropos with the 800 coming. What about the the relative health of our companies?

We could site SLI awards and debate their comparison to our corporations. The truth is that this case is different than any before, but your argument morphs from one set of criteria (no one has ever lost their seat) to another (no one like ME has ever lost their seat).

I believe we should respect the process instead of waving around proposals that others may find offensive. I have never offered what I think a fair solution would be, and I bristle every time anyone does. But you take it so far as to posture your opinion as fact and you mock all who offer a different perspective. It is getting old.

Interesting that you ignored the meat of my post. Nice dodge.

Please reconcile your statements.

 

[Cometman]

Between two profitable, growing companies with similar fleet types? Pray, do tell.

That might be correct but you have to consider the size. AAI is a small regional airline and SWA is a large major airline. You only have 100+ aircraft and SWA has what 550+ aircraft. You have 1700 pilots and SWA has close to what 6000. What a difference. Why didn't you mention these things. Oh I know, it doesn't matter. Just the things you thing will matter.

 

[vixin]

Sorry KP I didnt get the tongue in cheek. Just countering your brotha TY.

 

[Ty Webb]

That might be correct but you have to consider the size. AAI is a small regional airline and SWA is a large major airline. You only have 100+ aircraft and SWA has what 550+ aircraft. You have 1700 pilots and SWA has close to what 6000. What a difference. Why didn't you mention these things. Oh I know, it doesn't matter. Just the things you thing will matter.

Too funny, and entirely typical of the arguments I see on here.

AAI has been a major airline, as defined by the DOT, for years. We serve the same number of cities as SWA, btw. And our 717 are about the same as your -500's in an all-coach config.

Funny, I see all the Delta guys on here calling you guys a regional, too, since you have only SNB aircraft that only fly domestic. How does that feel? :laugh:

Since when did a fleet of 138 aircraft and 50 orders become "100 aircraft"? Are you that uninformed, or did you just lop off a third of our fleet because your point was weak? Also, did I mention that our orders are for fleet growth, while GK says that yourse are for replacement aircraft?

Blah, blah, blah, I can keep this crap going as long as you can. :laugh:

 

[Cometman]

Too funny, and entirely typical of the arguments I see on here.

AAI has been a major airline, as defined by the DOT, for years. We serve the same number of cities as SWA, btw. And our 717 are about the same as your -500's in an all-coach config.

Funny, I see all the Delta guys on here calling you guys a regional, too, since you have only SNB aircraft that only fly domestic. How does that feel? :laugh:

Since when did a fleet of 138 aircraft and 50 orders become "100 aircraft"? Are you that uninformed, or did you just lop off a third of our fleet because your point was weak? Also, did I mention that our orders are for fleet growth, while GK says that yourse are for replacement aircraft?

Blah, blah, blah, I can keep this crap going as long as you can. :laugh:

I am sorry. I did not know all that. You have to remember, you are an airline pilot with 10 years as a captain. I want to be an airline pilot but I still have 2 years left before I graduate from high school. Sorry if I offended you. It is great to be able to chat with people in your position. You are probably one of the most educated ones on this site. I hope to be like you when I get older.

 

[cole]

I say fence the Airtran guys, they can keep their seats and more importantly their contract. If they want to come over to SWA's contract they are welcome to, right at the bottom but also pay protected, if they were captains, even though I bet most of SWA's gear slingers make more than Airtran captains. That way the guys at Airtran who have hardons to keep their captain seat at their pay they are welcome to it.

 

[Tanker Clown]

I say fence the Airtran guys, they can keep their seats and more importantly their contract. If they want to come over to SWA's contract they are welcome to, right at the bottom but also pay protected, if they were captains, even though I bet most of SWA's gear slingers make more than Airtran captains. That way the guys at Airtran who have hardons to keep their captain seat at their pay they are welcome to it.

Cole, Ty says it's not about the money. It's about quality of life. He's also pretty proud of his new contract. So, he should support this will bells and whistles on.

What say you Ty?

 

[Kharma Police]

Actually SWA could put a fence around atl and airtran. Put in the Sli that all growth will be on SWA side. Nothing says SWA pilots couldn't open an atl base. It's all in the wording

You're about two months too late, someone else can bring you up to speed. Thanks for coming to the party, better late than never!

 

[cole]

You're about two months too late, someone else can bring you up to speed. Thanks for coming to the party, better late than never!

I didn't know there was a party. It must be on the airtran side for the huge qol and pay increases. No party on the SWA side that I have heard about.

 

[waveflyer]

You guys are all idiot drama queens

 

[redflyer65]

Hey Red,

You guys have a great contract. I congratulate SWAPA pilots for achieving that. I say this with zero sarcasm.

The one hitch I can see in your calculations is this; There are no nine year FO's at AirTran. The nine year pilots at AirTran have been Captains for the last 6 to 6.5 years.

Cheers.

Dicko,

It really didn't matter to me which year was compared. Don was spouting off about 9yr rates. I could care less, just wanted to show the facts. The facts show that its a massive difference between the payrates and overall career expectations.

Hopefully in the end we can all join up and kick some butt.

 

[Kharma Police]

I didn't know there was a party. It must be on the airtran side for the huge qol and pay increases. No party on the SWA side that I have heard about.

Actually, the SWAPA party for us in Atlanta was wonderful. Too bad you missed it.

 

[PRINCE AKEEM]

Good one little boy you hurt my feelings. Back at ya hypocrite. You are one the the least civil ones on here, especially if it doesnt go your way. Poor little boy was told to share and you throw temper tantrums.:bawling: Who called who an idiot. Thats the civility you have. Just because you have small mans disease. You are an embarassment to the trannies I am sure.

99%+ of us line pilots at AT don't feel this way and are excited about the "reality" and benefits of the merger with Southwest. Unfortunately, we have a few shortsighted individuals who cannot see the long term and only look down right in front of them. You hit the nail right on the head with the term "embarrassment."

 

[vixin]

AirTran CEO Bob Fornaro stressed in a conference call with reporters on Monday that AirTran had "done a lot with not much" in terms of financial resources, but that it was becoming less clear that AirTran had the ability to grow and remain competitive in an industry where the size of a carrier's route network is increasingly important.

"Southwest has, relative to AirTran, vast resources," Fornaro said. It became clear that "we could do more with Southwest resources" than AirTran could do on its own.

"The Southwest culture is unbelievable, and its employees have the highest passion I've ever seen in the industry," says Don Schmincke, a Baltimore-based author and speaker. "Can they convert AirTran employees

“This agreement is great news for our Crew Members, our shareholders, our customers and the communities we serve. Joining Southwest Airlines will give us opportunities to grow, both professionally as individuals and as a group, in ways that simply would not be possible without this agreement,” said Bob Fornaro

“We have evolved our company to be able to take on a growth opportunity like this,” Kelly said.

At the request of Hartsfield-Jackson, Delta and AirTran began working together on a new lease agreement as far back as a year ago. The major terms of the lease, agreed to months before AirTran began talking to Southwest, would have the net effect to "keep Southwest out" by limiting the number of open gates available for the Dallas-based airline.​

“Delta and AirTran used each other to get the best deal they could at the airport,” said someone familiar with the negotiations. “But when Delta started throwing AirTran under the bus, AirTran had an alternative. AirTran had outsmarted Delta.”​

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“Delta is going to feel pain like never before,” he said. “It is totally unavoidable.”

The real reason is that Southwest will “erode Delta’s pricing power” in the domestic market, where Delta already is at a disadvantage because of higher per-person operating costs. ​

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01/27/2010 CEO Robert Fornaro addressed the issue during a conference call Wednesday to discuss the airline's fourth-quarter financial results. QUESTION: How do you view the industry landscape and your prospects for growth in an improving economy?

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RESPONSE: "It's not our plan to scour the market and look for new planes. ... Right now, it's financial success first for us."
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2010-04-22

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ATLANTA -- AirTran Airways isn't putting up a for-sale sign, but the CEO of the discount carrier said Wednesday it would consider a combination with another carrier if approached and if such a deal made sense for the company and shareholders. CEO Robert Fornaro made the comments during a conference call with investors to discuss the airline's first-quarter financial results. Higher fuel prices stung AirTran, causing the usually profitable airline to post a $12 million loss for the first three months of the year.​

2009-02-06

Comments ATLANTA (Map, News) - Discount carrier AirTran Airways doesn't expect any overall growth for two years as it tries to weather the severe downturn in the U.S. economy, though it will add service in Milwaukee in a renewed effort to gain market share there, Chief Executive Robert Fornaro said Thursday. Fornaro told a gathering of analysts at the Raymond James & Associates Growth Airline Conference that AirTran will cut capacity in 2009 and likely will be flat in terms of capacity in 2010, but in 2011 it could (doesnt mean it would) grow at least 5 percent. In the meantime, it will make a push in Milwaukee.​

AirTran pilots to picket outside annual meeting

Originally published: May 17, 2010 4:37 PM
By The Associated Press HARRY R. WEBER (AP Airlines Writer)
ATLANTA - (AP) — AirTran Airways' pilots plan to picket outside the discount carrier's annual meeting to step up pressure on management over the workers' more than five-year effort to secure a new contract with better wages and quality-of-life improvements.
They also expect to announce during Tuesday's shareholders' meeting in Milwaukee that rank-and-file pilots have authorized the union to call a strike if it chooses.
At stake is AirTran's low-cost advantage over larger rivals that has allowed it to lead the way on fare sales and usually still turn a profit. AirTran posted a small loss for the first quarter but said it expects future cost pressures from fuel and maintenance. Additional labor costs could further affect its bottom line.​

AirTran captains in their 10th year of service who fly 75 hours a month on small narrowbody aircraft earn on average $129,000 a year, compared with $143,000 at American and $197,000 at Southwest Airlines, according to aviation consultant Kit Darby, who tracks pilot pay across the industry.​

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Anybody can find information like that on both sides. Whipty DO! I know Kit is a bafoon.

PA yeah we all have them. I can get fired up once in awhile. He is just a hypocrite. Had to use his term on civility to get through on another thread. I doubt it did though. Welcome!! Hopefully we will have a bigger party when all trannies come through DAL.​

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[SWA/FO]

good job! Vixin.

 

[Lear70]

You can get away with a lot when the moderator is in your back pocket ...

I'm not in anyone's back pocket. Ty was already given a warning a week ago for direct insults, and I've already suspended two other AirTran pilots for doing the same with profanity.

I know you don't like my opinions on the SLI issues. That's fine. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. But to attack my moderating because I don't agree with you isn't acceptable. Harassing the moderators is not allowed. If you don't like the way we moderate, email the webmaster. If he doesn't respond, then he obviously agrees with us.

I've posted a lot of positive things about the issues and avoided debating quite a few of the topics, as well as handing out suspensions on both sides of the aisle, as well as some people who don't even work for EITHER carrier. It doesn't get any more balanced than that. Sorry you don't agree.

As far as the original question, the ToS prohibits direct, personal attacks that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Calling someone an idiot because of what they post on a specific subject, while I personally disagree with it and think it leads towards more direct attacks, is still discussing the subject and that person's view on it.

However, calling someone a name unrelated to the topic or their position on it or other attacks like we've seen on here, especially those laced with profanity, WILL earn you a time out. No matter WHO you work for.

As a professional, I personally think you can avoid those and still get your point across, but that's just me... YMMV

 

[Lear70]

Kharma, watch the profanity, please.

Cole, please refer to the discussion we had about this last week on another thread and also found in the ToS. Profanity isn't allowed, and as we don't have the ability to EDIT a post and just take out the objectionable word, we have to delete the whole post. That means if you quote someone's profanity in your reply, YOUR reply gets lost when we delete the profanity in all its instances.

Please feel free to retype your original response, minus the profanity you quoted from Kharma's post. If you need me to email it to you so you can repost it exactly as it was, let me know.

/mod

 

[zman]

One doesn't have you read to far to know this new airline will simply be be called Southwest airlines after the merger. I think the traditional days of Southwest are over sadly.