Will The AirTran Pilots' Windfall Be A Consideration?

[cole]

You're about two months too late, someone else can bring you up to speed. Thanks for coming to the party, better late than never!

I didn't know there was a party. It must be on the airtran side for the huge qol and pay increases. No party on the SWA side that I have heard about.

 

[waveflyer]

You guys are all idiot drama queens

 

[redflyer65]

Hey Red,

You guys have a great contract. I congratulate SWAPA pilots for achieving that. I say this with zero sarcasm.

The one hitch I can see in your calculations is this; There are no nine year FO's at AirTran. The nine year pilots at AirTran have been Captains for the last 6 to 6.5 years.

Cheers.

Dicko,

It really didn't matter to me which year was compared. Don was spouting off about 9yr rates. I could care less, just wanted to show the facts. The facts show that its a massive difference between the payrates and overall career expectations.

Hopefully in the end we can all join up and kick some butt.

 

[Kharma Police]

I didn't know there was a party. It must be on the airtran side for the huge qol and pay increases. No party on the SWA side that I have heard about.

Actually, the SWAPA party for us in Atlanta was wonderful. Too bad you missed it.

 

[PRINCE AKEEM]

Good one little boy you hurt my feelings. Back at ya hypocrite. You are one the the least civil ones on here, especially if it doesnt go your way. Poor little boy was told to share and you throw temper tantrums.:bawling: Who called who an idiot. Thats the civility you have. Just because you have small mans disease. You are an embarassment to the trannies I am sure.

99%+ of us line pilots at AT don't feel this way and are excited about the "reality" and benefits of the merger with Southwest. Unfortunately, we have a few shortsighted individuals who cannot see the long term and only look down right in front of them. You hit the nail right on the head with the term "embarrassment."

 

[vixin]

AirTran CEO Bob Fornaro stressed in a conference call with reporters on Monday that AirTran had "done a lot with not much" in terms of financial resources, but that it was becoming less clear that AirTran had the ability to grow and remain competitive in an industry where the size of a carrier's route network is increasingly important.

"Southwest has, relative to AirTran, vast resources," Fornaro said. It became clear that "we could do more with Southwest resources" than AirTran could do on its own.

"The Southwest culture is unbelievable, and its employees have the highest passion I've ever seen in the industry," says Don Schmincke, a Baltimore-based author and speaker. "Can they convert AirTran employees

“This agreement is great news for our Crew Members, our shareholders, our customers and the communities we serve. Joining Southwest Airlines will give us opportunities to grow, both professionally as individuals and as a group, in ways that simply would not be possible without this agreement,” said Bob Fornaro

“We have evolved our company to be able to take on a growth opportunity like this,” Kelly said.

At the request of Hartsfield-Jackson, Delta and AirTran began working together on a new lease agreement as far back as a year ago. The major terms of the lease, agreed to months before AirTran began talking to Southwest, would have the net effect to "keep Southwest out" by limiting the number of open gates available for the Dallas-based airline.​

“Delta and AirTran used each other to get the best deal they could at the airport,” said someone familiar with the negotiations. “But when Delta started throwing AirTran under the bus, AirTran had an alternative. AirTran had outsmarted Delta.”​

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“Delta is going to feel pain like never before,” he said. “It is totally unavoidable.”

The real reason is that Southwest will “erode Delta’s pricing power” in the domestic market, where Delta already is at a disadvantage because of higher per-person operating costs. ​

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01/27/2010 CEO Robert Fornaro addressed the issue during a conference call Wednesday to discuss the airline's fourth-quarter financial results. QUESTION: How do you view the industry landscape and your prospects for growth in an improving economy?

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RESPONSE: "It's not our plan to scour the market and look for new planes. ... Right now, it's financial success first for us."
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2010-04-22

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ATLANTA -- AirTran Airways isn't putting up a for-sale sign, but the CEO of the discount carrier said Wednesday it would consider a combination with another carrier if approached and if such a deal made sense for the company and shareholders. CEO Robert Fornaro made the comments during a conference call with investors to discuss the airline's first-quarter financial results. Higher fuel prices stung AirTran, causing the usually profitable airline to post a $12 million loss for the first three months of the year.​

2009-02-06

Comments ATLANTA (Map, News) - Discount carrier AirTran Airways doesn't expect any overall growth for two years as it tries to weather the severe downturn in the U.S. economy, though it will add service in Milwaukee in a renewed effort to gain market share there, Chief Executive Robert Fornaro said Thursday. Fornaro told a gathering of analysts at the Raymond James & Associates Growth Airline Conference that AirTran will cut capacity in 2009 and likely will be flat in terms of capacity in 2010, but in 2011 it could (doesnt mean it would) grow at least 5 percent. In the meantime, it will make a push in Milwaukee.​

AirTran pilots to picket outside annual meeting

Originally published: May 17, 2010 4:37 PM
By The Associated Press HARRY R. WEBER (AP Airlines Writer)
ATLANTA - (AP) — AirTran Airways' pilots plan to picket outside the discount carrier's annual meeting to step up pressure on management over the workers' more than five-year effort to secure a new contract with better wages and quality-of-life improvements.
They also expect to announce during Tuesday's shareholders' meeting in Milwaukee that rank-and-file pilots have authorized the union to call a strike if it chooses.
At stake is AirTran's low-cost advantage over larger rivals that has allowed it to lead the way on fare sales and usually still turn a profit. AirTran posted a small loss for the first quarter but said it expects future cost pressures from fuel and maintenance. Additional labor costs could further affect its bottom line.​

AirTran captains in their 10th year of service who fly 75 hours a month on small narrowbody aircraft earn on average $129,000 a year, compared with $143,000 at American and $197,000 at Southwest Airlines, according to aviation consultant Kit Darby, who tracks pilot pay across the industry.​

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Anybody can find information like that on both sides. Whipty DO! I know Kit is a bafoon.

PA yeah we all have them. I can get fired up once in awhile. He is just a hypocrite. Had to use his term on civility to get through on another thread. I doubt it did though. Welcome!! Hopefully we will have a bigger party when all trannies come through DAL.​

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[SWA/FO]

good job! Vixin.

 

[Lear70]

You can get away with a lot when the moderator is in your back pocket ...

I'm not in anyone's back pocket. Ty was already given a warning a week ago for direct insults, and I've already suspended two other AirTran pilots for doing the same with profanity.

I know you don't like my opinions on the SLI issues. That's fine. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. But to attack my moderating because I don't agree with you isn't acceptable. Harassing the moderators is not allowed. If you don't like the way we moderate, email the webmaster. If he doesn't respond, then he obviously agrees with us.

I've posted a lot of positive things about the issues and avoided debating quite a few of the topics, as well as handing out suspensions on both sides of the aisle, as well as some people who don't even work for EITHER carrier. It doesn't get any more balanced than that. Sorry you don't agree.

As far as the original question, the ToS prohibits direct, personal attacks that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Calling someone an idiot because of what they post on a specific subject, while I personally disagree with it and think it leads towards more direct attacks, is still discussing the subject and that person's view on it.

However, calling someone a name unrelated to the topic or their position on it or other attacks like we've seen on here, especially those laced with profanity, WILL earn you a time out. No matter WHO you work for.

As a professional, I personally think you can avoid those and still get your point across, but that's just me... YMMV

 

[Lear70]

Kharma, watch the profanity, please.

Cole, please refer to the discussion we had about this last week on another thread and also found in the ToS. Profanity isn't allowed, and as we don't have the ability to EDIT a post and just take out the objectionable word, we have to delete the whole post. That means if you quote someone's profanity in your reply, YOUR reply gets lost when we delete the profanity in all its instances.

Please feel free to retype your original response, minus the profanity you quoted from Kharma's post. If you need me to email it to you so you can repost it exactly as it was, let me know.

/mod

 

[zman]

One doesn't have you read to far to know this new airline will simply be be called Southwest airlines after the merger. I think the traditional days of Southwest are over sadly.

 

[Wesb737fo]

One doesn't have you read to far to know this new airline will simply be be called Southwest airlines after the merger. I think the traditional days of Southwest are over sadly.

If, by traditional days, you mean the culture, it will only be over if you let the opinions of the less than 1 percent who post on this board affect you. Most of the people I interact with on the line have been civil and reasonable. This will be ONE great place to work.

 

[shootr]

OK Lear,

The subject at hand is whether or not Ty's insult of a SWA pilot is OK or not. IMHO, due to his arrogant, in-denial, opinionated, non-factual, egotistical, bloviated, grasping-at-straws, supercilious, pompous, and assumptive rants...Ty is an idiot (and not a very nice person). There, I said it.

shootr

 

[Kharma Police]

OK Lear,

The subject at hand is whether or not Ty's insult of a SWA pilot is OK or not. IMHO, due to his arrogant, in-denial, opinionated, non-factual, egotistical, bloviated, grasping-at-straws, supercilious, pompous, and assumptive rants...Ty is an idiot (and not a very nice person). There, I said it.

shootr

Man, dose is sum big words! Dey didn' learn us dose words down in 'da South.

 

[SWA/FO]

Did all the Tranny dudes become Moderators to help supplement their pay?

 

[Lear70]

Did all the Tranny dudes become Moderators to help supplement their pay?

It's a volunteer position other moderators sponsor you for. I supplement my pay doing Chippendale's weekends around the country. It's aviation, we all need a contingency plan...

OK Lear,

The subject at hand is whether or not Ty's insult of a SWA pilot is OK or not. IMHO, due to his arrogant, in-denial, opinionated, non-factual, egotistical, bloviated, grasping-at-straws, supercilious, pompous, and assumptive rants...Ty is an idiot (and not a very nice person). There, I said it.

shootr

Yep, you did, and since it's related to the argument and not a curse word or racist or scab comment, it'll stay.

I personally wouldn't call a Southwest pilot an idiot (although I certainly think the staple crowd is simply barking up the wrong tree and have no problem telling them what I think of their POSITION on the issue). I don't think it's professional to throw names back and forth, especially since I'm a mod.

However, this *IS* Flightinfo, and some people use this as their personal playground to throw flame and heckle people into getting mad and going off. Not to accuse Ty of doing so, but some people throw a lot of mud from behind the cover of anonymity and yeah, it irritates me, as it serves no purpose except to aggravate an already-volatile situation with people we're all going to have to work alongside for years to come.

Just trying to keep things from spinning out of hand between the 2%. As I said before, yes I applied at Southwest some years back because I really enjoy the culture at Southwest and I don't want to see that culture damaged or disappear. Even if it's just 2% that post here and another 10% that read it, if I can help keep it civil, it's worth the effort.

 

[Lonestar]

I don't recall seeing the question previously. There has been so much stuff flying around (pun intended) that I probably missed it.

I don't pretend to know the answer, but I'll take a swag at it . . . My guess is that the answer involves adjustments to address the differences between the carriers. Bases, Fleet, growth, stagnation, reduction, retirement, etc.

Never say never. This industry is still one major event away from disaster, unfortunately.

Ty, you really should hope you're wrong here. Do you want an arbitrator to "address the differences between the carriers"?

Lets see:
Bases: SWA- 8, AT- 1.2(approx 70 pilots in MKE on 09/27)
Fleet: SWA- 540ish, AT- 130ish. Or is it fleet type. SWA- all 737s, AT- mostly 717s
Growth/Stagnation: For your benefit, let's say SWA's short period of stagnation cancels out AT's recent furlough.
Retirement: SWA pilots- nearly 18% in this decade, AT pilots- about 7%
Etc: It goes on and on...

And Ty, you're right. Never say never, and with regard to our industry being one disaster away from...You and every AT pilot will definitely want to be at the airline with tons of cash and dominance (as opposed to a debt-laiden, leased and weaker carrier) if and when this occurs!

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Lonestar your post can't be right, Ty told us this a merger of EQUALS. Forget about SWA paying 1.4 billion in cash and stock and assuming another 1.4 billion in debt, TY said that will not matter. I do think it is Ironic though that every time someone points out the differences TY is always their to say that can't be considered!

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, you really should hope you're wrong here. Do you want an arbitrator to "address the differences between the carriers"?
I'm fine with that. It is what it is.
Lets see:
Bases: SWA- 8, AT- 3(approx 70 pilots in MKE on 09/27, MCO Base for 717 & 737)
Fleet: SWA- 540ish, AT- 140 + 50 for fleet expansion. Or is it fleet type. SWA- all 737s, AT- 85/55 now, will be 85/105
Growth/Stagnation: For your benefit, let's say SWA's short period of stagnation cancels out AT's 3 month furlough. Well, if you want to go there, with the 50 ordered aircraft, will be growing by 35%, while SWA stays flat and replaces older aircraft
Retirement: SWA pilots- nearly 18% in this decade, AT pilots- about 7%
Etc: It goes on and on...

And Ty, you're right. Never say never, and with regard to our industry being one disaster away from...You and every AT pilot will definitely want to be at the airline with tons of cash and dominance (as opposed to a debt-laiden, leased and weaker carrier) if and when this occurs!

It's too bad the first thread about this merger is gone, because there was a very insightful post by FDJ2, a Delta pilot without a dog in this fight. In the eyes of an Arbitrator, SWA and AAI are more similar than you think. We are both profitable LCC's that operate SNB aircraft in a mostly domestic (or domestic only) operation. SWA is the more established, more stable company with stagnant growth, AirTran has firm orders that will expand the fleet by an additional 32% over the next 5 years. SWA pays more, but AAI is only 16 years along.

What will the outcome be? Who knows?

One thing is for certain, though. The more heat and hyperbole surrounding the SLI issue, the more disappointment and resentment is likely to follow.

 

[S3sundowner]

Guys, why do you sit on here trying to trade with Ty? Why not let the process dictate, and when it's all said and done, we can come back on here and see what he's got to say. Whichever way this goes, he wins because he's a tranny. Now, please join me in refusing to get baited by Ty's version of what is just.

 

[S3sundowner]

My buddy over at swa just came back from training. He said management in dallas expressed increasing concerns over the rifts developing already in the labor groups. Ty needs to be careful.

 

[Dash Power]

Ty,

We share one issue certainly. Concern for our seniority after the SLI. You are obviously more concerned than anyone on this board. You are the one most likely to be the most disappointed and resentful after the fact. If you bring this to my airline, you will find yourself being an island. Ask a few of the Morris guys that still hold on too tight to their integration. Unlike Airtran, we are feverishly supportive of our company. Loyalty is a character carefully considered before offering employment at our great airline. It is has been well known just how unhappy the Airtran pilots have been for the past few years with your company. A very good friend of mine on the interview team shared with me the number of Airtran pilots he has personally interviewed and why they wanted to leave. Largely a very bitter group. Most were not recommended for hire because of the concerns for this attitude issue.

Since you brought up the potential disappointment and resentment point, I will tell you with 100% confidence, this will not be tolerated from any Airtran pilot with this integration. As it was not with the Morris pilots.

Good luck Ty. If I were you I would find an outside interest from this board to temper your potential disappointment and resentment.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

We share one issue certainly. Concern for our seniority after the SLI. You are obviously more concerned than anyone on this board. You are the one most likely to be the most disappointed and resentful after the fact

Same to you, buddy, same to you.

 

[S3sundowner]

Ty, Dash just wrote an intelligent, concerned post. You responded with that? I'm guessing Dash has been at SWA for a while, and you, should listen. One of your aai peers posted on here in the last day or three. He said that 99% of the aai guys are grateful and excited, whatever the outcome, and that people like you represent the very small minority. The SWA guys can only hope. You need to grow up with such idiotic responses.

 

[Kharma Police]

My buddy over at swa just came back from training. He said management in dallas expressed increasing concerns over the rifts developing already in the labor groups. Ty needs to be careful.

Are you sure you aren't the famous S-3 pilot by the name of Auburn Calloway? That sure would explain your bizarre and crazy posts.

Please, watch your temper Auburn, and stay off my jumpseat.

 

[Kharma Police]

Ty,

We share one issue certainly. Concern for our seniority after the SLI. You are obviously more concerned than anyone on this board. You are the one most likely to be the most disappointed and resentful after the fact. If you bring this to my airline, you will find yourself being an island. Ask a few of the Morris guys that still hold on too tight to their integration. Unlike Airtran, we are feverishly supportive of our company. Loyalty is a character carefully considered before offering employment at our great airline. It is has been well known just how unhappy the Airtran pilots have been for the past few years with your company. A very good friend of mine on the interview team shared with me the number of Airtran pilots he has personally interviewed and why they wanted to leave. Largely a very bitter group. Most were not recommended for hire because of the concerns for this attitude issue.

Since you brought up the potential disappointment and resentment point, I will tell you with 100% confidence, this will not be tolerated from any Airtran pilot with this integration. As it was not with the Morris pilots.

Good luck Ty. If I were you I would find an outside interest from this board to temper your potential disappointment and resentment.

Was Southwest your first choice when you got hired in the 90s? I doubt it. Keep up with the arrogance, I enjoy a good laugh. However, you and I know the truth, you probably busted your United, Delta, NWA, UsAir, FedEx, UPS and AA interviews and you wound up at Southwest as a last resort. I know what you'll say, "being turned down by every single airline besides Southwest was the greatest thing that ever happened to me!!!!"

Very sad, the abused by the industry SWA pilot form the early 90s now becomes the abuser of the AirTran pilots.........

 

[S3sundowner]

KP, wow you nailed that in one! I hope your predictions about the outcome of this mess will be as close.

 

[S3sundowner]

And KP, even if you are correct, how in the hell did you end up at airtran? I talked to an aai captain in atl a few years back. "How do you like airtran?" I asked. The response, verbatim was "It used to be a stepping stone to a real job, now it's a f***ing career". How's that for job satisfaction? Was it you Ty?

 

[Kharma Police]

My buddy over at swa just came back from training. He said management in dallas expressed increasing concerns over the rifts developing already in the labor groups. Ty needs to be careful.

So, are we cool?!?!, or are you going to bust out the spear gun?

 

[Dash Power]

Same to you, buddy, same to you.

Ty,

I have nothing to lose and very, very little to gain if anything with this integration. I am sincerely concerned about the attitude of the new SWA pilots acquired with this integration. It is my honest opinion that the junior pilots of SWA will naturally experience some gain in career expectations while the Airtran pilots will experience a very large gain as well. I have tried to share some well intentioned perspective with you that obviously has fallen on deaf ears. Which will only affect the joy you will have flying with, and working with, a great group of people. In our atmosphere a small amount of bitterness stands out brightly and does not garner any support. We all realize we are a team and we all get the job done well only with good attitudes. Questionable attitudes have historically been weeded out one way or another.

Honestly, disappointment and resentment really is not a player for me.

Once again, good luck Ty. My money is not with you right now. You seem bitter before the results of the SLI. As the saying goes, you can teach someone how to fly, but you can't change their attitude

 

[Dash Power]

Was Southwest your first choice when you got hired in the 90s? I doubt it. Keep up with the arrogance, I enjoy a good laugh. However, you and I know the truth, you probably busted your United, Delta, NWA, UsAir, FedEx, UPS and AA interviews and you wound up at Southwest as a last resort. I know what you'll say, "being turned down by every single airline besides Southwest was the greatest thing that ever happened to me!!!!"

Without getting into too much revealing detail, In the late 80's and very early 90's I was furloughed by one of the above mentioned airlines, in the pool for another, and left another for Southwest for the job security and culture. I earned the position like almost all other pilots. Some thought I was crazy then later called me a genius. I have always thought it to be a calculated decision based on my experience. And I have been blessed for it worked out well.

Can you accept that truth or are you just going to call BS on this fact.