Will The AirTran Pilots' Windfall Be A Consideration?

[Lonestar]

I don't recall seeing the question previously. There has been so much stuff flying around (pun intended) that I probably missed it.

I don't pretend to know the answer, but I'll take a swag at it . . . My guess is that the answer involves adjustments to address the differences between the carriers. Bases, Fleet, growth, stagnation, reduction, retirement, etc.

Never say never. This industry is still one major event away from disaster, unfortunately.

Ty, you really should hope you're wrong here. Do you want an arbitrator to "address the differences between the carriers"?

Lets see:
Bases: SWA- 8, AT- 1.2(approx 70 pilots in MKE on 09/27)
Fleet: SWA- 540ish, AT- 130ish. Or is it fleet type. SWA- all 737s, AT- mostly 717s
Growth/Stagnation: For your benefit, let's say SWA's short period of stagnation cancels out AT's recent furlough.
Retirement: SWA pilots- nearly 18% in this decade, AT pilots- about 7%
Etc: It goes on and on...

And Ty, you're right. Never say never, and with regard to our industry being one disaster away from...You and every AT pilot will definitely want to be at the airline with tons of cash and dominance (as opposed to a debt-laiden, leased and weaker carrier) if and when this occurs!

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Lonestar your post can't be right, Ty told us this a merger of EQUALS. Forget about SWA paying 1.4 billion in cash and stock and assuming another 1.4 billion in debt, TY said that will not matter. I do think it is Ironic though that every time someone points out the differences TY is always their to say that can't be considered!

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, you really should hope you're wrong here. Do you want an arbitrator to "address the differences between the carriers"?
I'm fine with that. It is what it is.
Lets see:
Bases: SWA- 8, AT- 3(approx 70 pilots in MKE on 09/27, MCO Base for 717 & 737)
Fleet: SWA- 540ish, AT- 140 + 50 for fleet expansion. Or is it fleet type. SWA- all 737s, AT- 85/55 now, will be 85/105
Growth/Stagnation: For your benefit, let's say SWA's short period of stagnation cancels out AT's 3 month furlough. Well, if you want to go there, with the 50 ordered aircraft, will be growing by 35%, while SWA stays flat and replaces older aircraft
Retirement: SWA pilots- nearly 18% in this decade, AT pilots- about 7%
Etc: It goes on and on...

And Ty, you're right. Never say never, and with regard to our industry being one disaster away from...You and every AT pilot will definitely want to be at the airline with tons of cash and dominance (as opposed to a debt-laiden, leased and weaker carrier) if and when this occurs!

It's too bad the first thread about this merger is gone, because there was a very insightful post by FDJ2, a Delta pilot without a dog in this fight. In the eyes of an Arbitrator, SWA and AAI are more similar than you think. We are both profitable LCC's that operate SNB aircraft in a mostly domestic (or domestic only) operation. SWA is the more established, more stable company with stagnant growth, AirTran has firm orders that will expand the fleet by an additional 32% over the next 5 years. SWA pays more, but AAI is only 16 years along.

What will the outcome be? Who knows?

One thing is for certain, though. The more heat and hyperbole surrounding the SLI issue, the more disappointment and resentment is likely to follow.

 

[S3sundowner]

Guys, why do you sit on here trying to trade with Ty? Why not let the process dictate, and when it's all said and done, we can come back on here and see what he's got to say. Whichever way this goes, he wins because he's a tranny. Now, please join me in refusing to get baited by Ty's version of what is just.

 

[S3sundowner]

My buddy over at swa just came back from training. He said management in dallas expressed increasing concerns over the rifts developing already in the labor groups. Ty needs to be careful.

 

[Dash Power]

Ty,

We share one issue certainly. Concern for our seniority after the SLI. You are obviously more concerned than anyone on this board. You are the one most likely to be the most disappointed and resentful after the fact. If you bring this to my airline, you will find yourself being an island. Ask a few of the Morris guys that still hold on too tight to their integration. Unlike Airtran, we are feverishly supportive of our company. Loyalty is a character carefully considered before offering employment at our great airline. It is has been well known just how unhappy the Airtran pilots have been for the past few years with your company. A very good friend of mine on the interview team shared with me the number of Airtran pilots he has personally interviewed and why they wanted to leave. Largely a very bitter group. Most were not recommended for hire because of the concerns for this attitude issue.

Since you brought up the potential disappointment and resentment point, I will tell you with 100% confidence, this will not be tolerated from any Airtran pilot with this integration. As it was not with the Morris pilots.

Good luck Ty. If I were you I would find an outside interest from this board to temper your potential disappointment and resentment.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

We share one issue certainly. Concern for our seniority after the SLI. You are obviously more concerned than anyone on this board. You are the one most likely to be the most disappointed and resentful after the fact

Same to you, buddy, same to you.

 

[S3sundowner]

Ty, Dash just wrote an intelligent, concerned post. You responded with that? I'm guessing Dash has been at SWA for a while, and you, should listen. One of your aai peers posted on here in the last day or three. He said that 99% of the aai guys are grateful and excited, whatever the outcome, and that people like you represent the very small minority. The SWA guys can only hope. You need to grow up with such idiotic responses.

 

[Kharma Police]

My buddy over at swa just came back from training. He said management in dallas expressed increasing concerns over the rifts developing already in the labor groups. Ty needs to be careful.

Are you sure you aren't the famous S-3 pilot by the name of Auburn Calloway? That sure would explain your bizarre and crazy posts.

Please, watch your temper Auburn, and stay off my jumpseat.

 

[Kharma Police]

Ty,

We share one issue certainly. Concern for our seniority after the SLI. You are obviously more concerned than anyone on this board. You are the one most likely to be the most disappointed and resentful after the fact. If you bring this to my airline, you will find yourself being an island. Ask a few of the Morris guys that still hold on too tight to their integration. Unlike Airtran, we are feverishly supportive of our company. Loyalty is a character carefully considered before offering employment at our great airline. It is has been well known just how unhappy the Airtran pilots have been for the past few years with your company. A very good friend of mine on the interview team shared with me the number of Airtran pilots he has personally interviewed and why they wanted to leave. Largely a very bitter group. Most were not recommended for hire because of the concerns for this attitude issue.

Since you brought up the potential disappointment and resentment point, I will tell you with 100% confidence, this will not be tolerated from any Airtran pilot with this integration. As it was not with the Morris pilots.

Good luck Ty. If I were you I would find an outside interest from this board to temper your potential disappointment and resentment.

Was Southwest your first choice when you got hired in the 90s? I doubt it. Keep up with the arrogance, I enjoy a good laugh. However, you and I know the truth, you probably busted your United, Delta, NWA, UsAir, FedEx, UPS and AA interviews and you wound up at Southwest as a last resort. I know what you'll say, "being turned down by every single airline besides Southwest was the greatest thing that ever happened to me!!!!"

Very sad, the abused by the industry SWA pilot form the early 90s now becomes the abuser of the AirTran pilots.........

 

[S3sundowner]

KP, wow you nailed that in one! I hope your predictions about the outcome of this mess will be as close.

 

[S3sundowner]

And KP, even if you are correct, how in the hell did you end up at airtran? I talked to an aai captain in atl a few years back. "How do you like airtran?" I asked. The response, verbatim was "It used to be a stepping stone to a real job, now it's a f***ing career". How's that for job satisfaction? Was it you Ty?

 

[Kharma Police]

My buddy over at swa just came back from training. He said management in dallas expressed increasing concerns over the rifts developing already in the labor groups. Ty needs to be careful.

So, are we cool?!?!, or are you going to bust out the spear gun?

 

[Dash Power]

Same to you, buddy, same to you.

Ty,

I have nothing to lose and very, very little to gain if anything with this integration. I am sincerely concerned about the attitude of the new SWA pilots acquired with this integration. It is my honest opinion that the junior pilots of SWA will naturally experience some gain in career expectations while the Airtran pilots will experience a very large gain as well. I have tried to share some well intentioned perspective with you that obviously has fallen on deaf ears. Which will only affect the joy you will have flying with, and working with, a great group of people. In our atmosphere a small amount of bitterness stands out brightly and does not garner any support. We all realize we are a team and we all get the job done well only with good attitudes. Questionable attitudes have historically been weeded out one way or another.

Honestly, disappointment and resentment really is not a player for me.

Once again, good luck Ty. My money is not with you right now. You seem bitter before the results of the SLI. As the saying goes, you can teach someone how to fly, but you can't change their attitude

 

[Dash Power]

Was Southwest your first choice when you got hired in the 90s? I doubt it. Keep up with the arrogance, I enjoy a good laugh. However, you and I know the truth, you probably busted your United, Delta, NWA, UsAir, FedEx, UPS and AA interviews and you wound up at Southwest as a last resort. I know what you'll say, "being turned down by every single airline besides Southwest was the greatest thing that ever happened to me!!!!"

Without getting into too much revealing detail, In the late 80's and very early 90's I was furloughed by one of the above mentioned airlines, in the pool for another, and left another for Southwest for the job security and culture. I earned the position like almost all other pilots. Some thought I was crazy then later called me a genius. I have always thought it to be a calculated decision based on my experience. And I have been blessed for it worked out well.

Can you accept that truth or are you just going to call BS on this fact.