Will The AirTran Pilots' Windfall Be A Consideration?

[ASADFW7]

Remember guys and gals after this deal is done, we have only military and civilians. In that we have a subset, the Swiss Army Backpack Dudes, and the smoking jacket and hat wearing check airman and check airman wannabes. So knock yourselves out but seriously go for it.

 

[shootr]

Hey Lear,

Is it OK for an AT guy to call sombody on FI an idiot? Just wondering...

shootr

 

[ASADFW7]

shootr that is a little redundant dontcha think, like call the fat girl heavy, the husky kid thick...

 

[redflyer65]

I used your NEW payscale when making the comparison, so why wouldn't you use ours?

I also noticed that you only did an F/O comparison (and used the OLD payscale). Where are your CA comparisons? Yeah, that wouldn't help your case.

Knock off the "Windfall" crap. You are trying to make it sound like SWA pilots are better than everyone else. You're not. You are what you are because you have a logical, empathetic, and employee-friendly management team. Walk a day in our shoes or that of any other major airline here that deals with Lorenzo style management every day.

Look...I never applied to nor have ever had the desire to work for SWA. Paying for a type rating just to get a job just isn't my cup of tea. But I am very hopeful with this merger because I know that both companies on their own would have a difficult time going up against the combined behemoths of DAL/NWA and CAL/UAL. However...together, given the projection of where G.K. wants to take the newly combined airline, we could be the 3rd behemoth in the not too distant future. We can do it as a team and with unity. It starts by eliminating this Us vs. Them talk.

If there is any "windfall", I guess it would be the permanant riddance of AAI management. I wonder what company they will slither over to, infest and screwup? Probably Frito-Lay.

I just used our contractual payrates. We didn't get a new contract.

My comparison is apples to apples. If anything I slighted the Southwest side a little. I used 70hr on the Southwest side and that's low.

I can show a different method...


A 9yr FO trip for pay rate is 124.23

Using a typical three day trip (pulled from this months schedule) of 20.07 credit X 124.23 = 2493.

Flight time for that block is 16.45. Divide the 2493 by the block of 16.45 and you get 151.55 per hour.

For that one trip above, the Southwest pilot make 56 percent more than the new Airtran rates. Using the original payscale and its around 100 percent increase for a AAI FO.

I don't think the Southwest pilots are better than anyone. I don't know how you can be honest in saying the above is not a windfall position.

We can agree that we should leave the AAI managers somewhere, maybe the side of the road!

 

[clr4theapch]

Hey Lear,

Is it OK for an AT guy to call sombody on FI an idiot? Just wondering...

shootr

Shootr... please "carefully" read the Terms of Service of the web site.. Flight Info... if it does ntot violate these terms it is "generally" ok.. thicker skin may be required if you wish to play here... lets not call "May Day" on such trivial matters...

 

[50Pesos]

We through you a party and someone takes a dump in the urinal! WTF?!

Tell me this isnt true? Seriously!

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey Lear,

Is it OK for an AT guy to call sombody on FI an idiot? Just wondering...

shootr

That wasn't meant to be an insult, as much as an observation.

 

[S3sundowner]

So then it's not an insult if, in your opinion, it's a true statement?

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, since you brought it up I thought I would address your comments with the words of your MEC VC, Mr. PLC.

"The $140 million number is low. Remember, it's over $50 million in just the first year, and it's a five year deal. Also, AirTran won't make nearly $160 million this year in net profit."

The first year of the contract had $17 million in bonuses, which equates to around $20 million after retirement, FICA, etc., so back that out and you have $150 mil package, with $130 million of that in annual pay increases, divided over 5 years, or an annual increase of $26 million. Chump change.

So, the silly question of whether AirTran could afford the lousy $26 million increase per year our Contract cost is pretty much moot.

LoneStar, I'm assuming that you understand the difference between an Operating Profit and Net Profit. Many of the items that make up the difference are discretionary, ie choosing to retire debt early, investing in infrastructure outside of that required by current agreements, hedges, etc.

It's very easy to decide to make the net high or low, depending upon the desired outcome. Want to cry poor to a labor group in negotiations? Easy. Don't upgrade the tug fleet in 2012, do it now, and pay for it at once, instead of financing it or leasing. There goes $20 million (necessary, and look, we saved $1 million in interest, too!). Need to upgrade the computer terminals in 2011? Let's do it now, and pay cash. Oh, there went another $11 million. Sorry, guys, we don't have the money. Look at our Net Profit!

And since you brought up our contract, it will cost north of $100 million per year to bring your pilots to our SWAPA rates. AT mgmt would be insane to throw nearly 2/3 of your best year's profit at your group.

The problem AirTran isn't cost, it's revenue. Obviously, your CEO has run the numbers of what he can do with our airline with the projected synergies, and it vastly exceeds the costs of bringing ALL of AirTran to SWA pay rates.

While we're talking about this, I want to point out (again) that paying AirTran Pilots your current contract rates is not a "windfall" as the term is used in McCaskill/Bond and Allegheny/Piedmont merger law. A "windfall" in that context is "taking from one pilot group and giving it to another". This would not describe paying us your current rates, but it sure would describe taking our Captain seats and distributing them to your FO's.

Flame on, ladies.

 

[dicko]

I just used our contractual payrates. We didn't get a new contract.

My comparison is apples to apples. If anything I slighted the Southwest side a little. I used 70hr on the Southwest side and that's low.

I can show a different method...


A 9yr FO trip for pay rate is 124.23

Using a typical three day trip (pulled from this months schedule) of 20.07 credit X 124.23 = 2493.

Flight time for that block is 16.45. Divide the 2493 by the block of 16.45 and you get 151.55 per hour.

For that one trip above, the Southwest pilot make 56 percent more than the new Airtran rates. Using the original payscale and its around 100 percent increase for a AAI FO.

I don't think the Southwest pilots are better than anyone. I don't know how you can be honest in saying the above is not a windfall position.

We can agree that we should leave the AAI managers somewhere, maybe the side of the road!

Hey Red,

You guys have a great contract. I congratulate SWAPA pilots for achieving that. I say this with zero sarcasm.

The one hitch I can see in your calculations is this; There are no nine year FO's at AirTran. The nine year pilots at AirTran have been Captains for the last 6 to 6.5 years.

Cheers.