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Will SWA and AT truly merge?

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Cometman said:
What a cop out. Now that everybody knows you are not as smart as you think you are saying you are just a regular pilot. Like somebody else said, the airline that is being acquired thinks they control the airline that is buying them. I think that is the statement that proved you are not the smart one you think you are.

The airtran contract is more restrictive in everything so I guess the SWA guys will be getting your contract. Will it be the old one or the new one? Probably not much difference.
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He can't publicly admit who he is for liability sake but he is connected with the Union.
 
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Cometman, I'm not sure why you're so worked up about this discussion, since you've said repeatedly that you're not an AirTran or Southwest pilot. But to answer your question, the contracts each apply to their own bargaining unit. Our pay rates and work rules don't apply to the pilots at SWA, and vice versa, until everyone is under a single contract. However, Southwest Airlines is bound to our scope language specifically, which is separate from the rest of the contract, because we have a separate holding company side letter that is signed by AirTran Holdings and is binding on any successor.
 
PCL_128 said:
Cometman, I'm not sure why you're so worked up about this discussion, since you've said repeatedly that you're not an AirTran or Southwest pilot. But to answer your question, the contracts each apply to their own bargaining unit. Our pay rates and work rules don't apply to the pilots at SWA, and vice versa, until everyone is under a single contract. However, Southwest Airlines is bound to our scope language specifically, which is separate from the rest of the contract, because we have a separate holding company side letter that is signed by AirTran Holdings and is binding on any successor.
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If you think Airtran has to get out of the deal of SWA does not merge into one airline before 18 months I think you are in for a suprise. How long does SWA have to start selling off assets? Do they have to do it before the 18 months? Or do they get 24 months for that?
 
Kharma Police said:
He can't publicly admit who he is for liability sake but he is connected with the Union.
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I agree with you on that statment. However, a real person involved with the union probably would not be on here saying things so stupid. In fact, if he is really one of your union members I think SWA will do fine. I bet all SWA guys are hoping the rest of the union members are just like him.
 
Cometman, here are the applicable sections of our contract. I think they speak for themselves:

Section 1.D:

1. This Agreement shall be binding on any Successor or Assign of the Company, unless or until changed in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended. For the purposes of the Agreement, a Successor or Assign shall be defined as an entity which acquires all or substantially all of the assets or equity of the Company.

2. The Company shall require that the Successor or Assign shall, as a condition of and prior to the closing of a transaction as described in Paragraph D.1., above, commit in writing to adhere to the provisions of this Agreement until changed pursuant to the Railway Labor Act.

Section 1.E:

2. In the event of a transaction in which another U.S. certificated air carrier that operates aircraft with more than eighty-six (86) seats becomes an Affiliate of the Company (“merger transaction”), the surviving air carrier(s) will integrate the pre-merger flight operations no later than eighteen (18) months following the closing of the transaction subject to FAA and regulatory approval and use the following procedures to integrate the seniority lists of the two (2) air carriers (nothing in this Paragraph E. shall prevent the Company from disposing of its interest in the other air carrier prior to the merger of flight operations.)

Section 1.R:

5. An “Affiliate” of an entity is its Parent, Subsidiary, or any other entity under the control of its Parent.
 
I cant believe the moron that drove PSA Airlines into the 70 seat screw job is on the SWAPA merger team. SWA pilots beware....you have a loose canon knicknamed LUNCHBOX in your ranks. Be careful.....he's a nut job. I would have thought someone would have called ALPA before hiring him.
 
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PCL_128 said:
Cometman, here are the applicable sections of our contract. I think they speak for themselves:

Section 1.D:

1. This Agreement shall be binding on any Successor or Assign of the Company, unless or until changed in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended. For the purposes of the Agreement, a Successor or Assign shall be defined as an entity which acquires all or substantially all of the assets or equity of the Company.

2. The Company shall require that the Successor or Assign shall, as a condition of and prior to the closing of a transaction as described in Paragraph D.1., above, commit in writing to adhere to the provisions of this Agreement until changed pursuant to the Railway Labor Act.

Section 1.E:

2. In the event of a transaction in which another U.S. certificated air carrier that operates aircraft with more than eighty-six (86) seats becomes an Affiliate of the Company (“merger transaction”), the surviving air carrier(s) will integrate the pre-merger flight operations no later than eighteen (18) months following the closing of the transaction subject to FAA and regulatory approval and use the following procedures to integrate the seniority lists of the two (2) air carriers (nothing in this Paragraph E. shall prevent the Company from disposing of its interest in the other air carrier prior to the merger of flight operations.)

Section 1.R:

5. An “Affiliate” of an entity is its Parent, Subsidiary, or any other entity under the control of its Parent.
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Thanks for clearing things up for me. So, does that mean that if they are getting close to the 18 months and they are not going to be able to combine thecompanies they can sell off assets? That way they could be under the 51% and then will not have to worry about operating 2 seperate companies?
 
Cometman, section 1.E.2 doesn't differentiate based on whether a portion of the assets are sold off or not. Since Section 1.D.1 requires SWA to be bound by the agreement, they are bound by 1.E.2, which requires a merger if AirTran is an affiliate of Southwest, regardless of the amount of assets held by Southwest. They could sell off a portion of the AirTran assets, but the remaining assets would have to be merged, along with the pilots.
 
And with that, I think I've had my fill of this thread. The language is now there for everyone to read, so you can come to your own conclusions. I'm sure no one will have their minds changed by a thread on FI, anyway. It's like having a political argument on the internet: largely a waste of time.

You guys have fun arguing, though.
 
PCL,
You still don't get it. You don't get to change your contract after the fact and have it apply. Your section 1 will be thrown out if it comes down to it. Constructive notice date. Period. Dot. End.

If that wasn't the case Swapa could draw up a sideletter that requires a staple.
 
Thats the name the PSA pilots gave him because he is such a child. Captains regularly used to ask him if he remembered his lunchbox when showing up to the aircraft. He is a confidential nightmare. A gossip and not someone who should be representing the SWA pilot group.

I know there is a team that makes up the Merger/Acq arm of SWAPA.......but how this guy ever got keys to Pepperdine Training is incredible. Someone should have looked closely at this guys union resume and checked with people at ALPA.

When I read that he was junior rep on the SWAPA merger and acquisition team this morning I nearly choked.

Ask any PSA pilot flying for Southwest Airlines about this guys integrity and be ready for an ear full.
 
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Section 1.E:

2. In the event of a transaction in which another U.S. certificated air carrier that operates aircraft with more than eighty-six (86) seats becomes an Affiliate of the Company (“merger transaction”), the surviving air carrier(s) will integrate the pre-merger flight operations no later than eighteen (18) months following the closing of the transaction subject to FAA and regulatory approval and use the following procedures to integrate the seniority lists of the two (2) air carriers (nothing in this Paragraph E. shall prevent the Company from disposing of its interest in the other air carrier prior to the merger of flight operations.)
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This paragraph is exclusive to 1.D of your contract. This I interpret as if you were the acquiring carrier you would be required to have integrated the airline your "company" purchased within 18 months.

I hate to break the news to you but as this is presented, this was an item the company negotiated for its benefit, not yours.

Section 1.D is stating that if someone buys you (SWA), they must abide by your contract. Which they will until.....?????
 
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roughneck said:
PCL,
You still don't get it. You don't get to change your contract after the fact and have it apply. Your section 1 will be thrown out if it comes down to it. Constructive notice date. Period. Dot. End.

If that wasn't the case Swapa could draw up a sideletter that requires a staple.
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PCL has left the building. Good night, drive safe!
 
kwick said:
Better read your own Company's web site. They will combine operations.

It will probably go to arbitration.

And, Yes if you are a First Officer now you will most likely remain one.

You have nothing to gripe about.
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Dude,

Aren't you the guy who thinks AII has bigger airplanes? Get a grip!
 

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