Why we have OBAP........

[hbrow15]

If this bothers you so much, I suggest you send letters on nice stationary to all the HR departments of all the airlines that support OBAP's vision and let them know how you feel. Let me know how it goes.

Great Idea

 

[hbrow15]

hbrow,
While I disagree with quite a few of your viewpoints, I very much appreciate the fact that you addressed your points in a rational manner. Thanks.

BTW, since you asked, I personally know eight black pilots and at least that many other minority pilots. In the last year, of the four people I have tried to get hired where I work, two of them are black pilots. They are all good people and that is what matters.

No problem I enjoy a nice debate with a fellow brother in arms even if you are a Air Force Guy.

 

[Juvat]

Debating a Marine is like fighting an unarmed opponent in a battle of wits.

By the way, I tried to get through your long post hbrow15, but could only read about half before I was totally lost. It was like reading one of the Unibomber letters in the New York Times. Sorry, gotta call a spade a spade.

 

[kilroy]

How many of you guys support this association. Remember don't ask don't tell.
http://www.ngpa.org/

 

[hbrow15]

Debating a Marine is like fighting an unarmed opponent in a battle of wits.

By the way, I tried to get through your long post hbrow15, but could only read about half before I was totally lost. It was like reading one of the Unibomber letters in the New York Times. Sorry, gotta call a spade a spade.

I'll be your dumb Marine i've heard most of them and wear them all with pride. I will not respond to your post beyond that, I make it a point not to get into personal attacks on message boards has a hint of cowardice and if I get into it with someone I choose to do it face to face so nothing is lost in the translation. And since we dont know each other I'll assume that spade thing is just a saying.

 

[Cyclone]

poverty is color blind. there are poor kids in this country that are from every ethnic group. lots of them are a mix of different backgrounds...like mutts at the humane society. no two skin colors are the same. nevertheless, they are poor...that is what makes them similar.

underprivileged kids come from more than one place. some live in the country, some live in the hills, and some live in the city, etc. the thing that makes it hard for these kids isn't that they are all from the inner city ghetto (because they're not all from there). it's not where they are from that made it tough. it's where they aren't from that made it tougher for them. so there are a lot of places (besides the inner-city ghetto) that get excluded if your view is so narrow that you associate "had it rough" means from the hood. the biggest factor in how hard it was: the parents.

don't assume that in order to have been poor or in order to have had it rough that you had to be black. it's not logical and it's not true.

don't assume you have to be from south chicago (or similar place) to be from a place that was "hard to get out." barriers to upward social mobility doesn't afflict just one type of geographic area.

don't assume because someone is black that they were poor and that they had it rough. again...not logical and not true.

so why would an organization zero-in on race and certain zip codes if their goal was to help people those less fortunate? then they pat each other on the back at the convention and tell each other what great work they are doing. nevermind the people who could use their help that get excluded because they don't fit into their definition of who needs help.

if they really want to help "those less fortunate" then they shouldn't be so specific in who they are helping.

the way the OBAP is playing the game helps some poor underprivileged kids. others fall through the crack because they 1) aren't black and 2) aren't from the inner city. they are discriminating against kids who don't fall in their neatly defined (racist) group. that isn't a service...it's a dis-service (to all of us).

BTW...what really is a bizarre paradoxical twist in all of this is that the OBAP scholarship winner that i met had it really nice growing up (all of us should have had it so tough). all four WIA scholarship winners i know of had it downright cushy. none of those people needed help but they got it because of their race/gender...so the organizations helped them (even though they didn't need help) because the charter is to help blacks and women. i think that is wrong. it wouldn't make me pause a second if WIA and OBAP helped kids who needed help based on something other than race and gender (socioeconomic disadvantage). they don't do that...they are really good at getting (middle class?) black guys and gals hired. so does it surprise anyone that a white guy from a disadvantaged background would say WTF?

eventually these types of organizations will fade away...just like jim crow...just like segregation...it will just take time. eventually people will recognize them for what they are...prejudicial...racist...divisive.

 

[WhiteCloud]

BTW, since you asked, I personally know eight black pilots and at least that many other minority pilots. In the last year, of the four people I have tried to get hired where I work, two of them are black pilots.

It's certainly OK for you to help your friends and aquaintences navigate the hiring maze. It's not any different than other individuals or groups (like OBAP) that help bring corporate attention to those that are less connected to the industry.

 

[Cyclone]

spade a spade

Meaning

To speak plainly - to describe something as it really is.

Origin

It pre-dates the slang use of the term spade (pejorative reference to race). it's been in use since at least since 300BC (origins in greek).

just because someone takes offense doesn't mean the person who sent the message was wrong. a while back a politician got slammed because he used the term niggardly...oh my god i can't believe he said that...people went nuts...they called for his head on a platter...all because the complainers had a limited vocabulary and they didn't know the meaning of the word.

 

[Rook]

. Sorry, gotta call a spade a spade.

That a joke?

 

[ImRickJames]

Cyclone, I keep saying and will keep saying it. Your barking up the wrong tree. I'd agree with you if any organization excluded individuals in name and in practice. There many organizations, like NGPA, that help their members, whomever they may be get around the old boys network that is in the airlines. You keep spitting this idea about all the poor children from everywhere. Since all you do is complain about a problem, step up, join an organization, hopefully OBAP and start to spear programs in these areas your speaking of.

If you won't do this, shut up, because no one cares if you complain and aren't willing to do something about. You can easily join OBAP and volunteer to do programs in any city, they would love to have someone eager to help unfortunate kids. If your not willing to do something, then you are just flamebaiting.

Put up or shut up, because your arguement is getting old.