Cyclone said:obap makes a distinction between us based on race. BTW you don't know my race.
i try not to make distinctions about people based on race...i was taught by my daddy that it was rude to make those kind of distinctions.
OBAP...here is a group of pilots...an organization of black airline pilots (albeit anyone can join) that makes a racial distinction in their name and in their charter. who do they award the scholarships to? white pilots? didn't think so...it is racially motivated with the purpose of furthering the cause of black pilots...totally racist.
WIA...same...totally sexist.
when they do award scholarships to black pilots...those pilots jump to the front of the line and go to airline XYZ. the scholarship winners are black. are they poor? maybe (maybe not). chances are they are from families that had a lot more money than mine did growing up...you may not believe this but there are some white pilots from the wrong side of the tracks too...who is looking out for their interests? the only OBAP scholarship winner i ever met (sample size of one) he grew up in a family a lot more affluent than my family was...funny that he got a scholarship and hired directly by SWA (thus circumventing the normal application/interview process because the OBAP scholarship winners are basically direct hires and go into the first available class...this is true...they jump the queue). anyway, he probably woud have been hired anyway...so all the OBAP did was short circuit the normal hiring process and put him in line ahead of all the guys and gals waiting in the pool (there were ~200 in the pool waiting at the time).
all the WIA scholarship winners i have met (4 to be exact) came from affluent upper middle class backgrounds...they got hired because they had vaginas (not because they had it rough).
all of this "social engineering" is a result of the 50s-60s racial movements. it is a leftover of the 60s idealism of people trying to make things better but sometimes making things worse.
HR departments are responsible for who gets hired (not OBAP). however, OBAP knows how the system works and they work it to try to give advantages to a group of people based on their race (not their socioeconomic background). that is racist and sad.
i think what the previous post that said (if you changed the name to "organization of white" instead of "black") is true...it would horrify any normal, educated, good person.
it is a double standard to think that is OK to have an OBAP because you are helping blacks. truth is that this group is targeting who they help based on race...and it makes a distinction between people based on race. any group that does this...whether it's based on race or gender is taking a stance "against" everyone else they distinguish themselves from. that's who is leftover...those not in their target group. if they were out to help underprivileged or poor it would be cool with me but that's not what they do.
you can have your club...no one can take it away. it's perfectly legal. it's just sad that you...especially as a former marine can't see it for what it is. it's a racially motivated group who drive a wedge between whites and blacks...it fosters resentment and hate.
Cyclone
1st I know your a navy guy but Marine is always capitalized give the Eagle Globe and Anchor it's due respect I just noticed you are a P-3 guy funny we may have ran into each other, Were you ever station at NAS JAX?, that's where I recieved all my flight training at Jax Navy Flying club. Based on your theory we should have a problem just with the name, we are all military why divide us based on the branch of service and not replace Navy with military? Probably because it was on a Navy base most people that would be members would be sailors but we all were able to join. We had dirt cheap rates at the flying club and paid no tax therefore it made flight training much more affordable as a matter of fact if it were not for my GI bill and the flying club I probably would not have been able to afford my flight training, since this avenue was only open to military is that fair to everyone else who is not in the military?. It seems as if your problem is with the airlines that do the hiring in your example SWA. These companies set it's own practice that we may or may not think is right. I was at an air inc conference once when I learned Jetblue for instance, in every interview group tries to include a certian number bomber pilots, a certain number of fighter pilots, helo guys, blacks, women, military transport and so forth just so they have a diverse background among the pilot ranks because everyone brings different experiences based on thier background. Now you may ask why there was not mention of white guys, out of those groups that they try to include which one you think they may have a hard time filling? the fact of the matter is there is no shortage on white male applicants and notice I said interviewed not hired, everyone still has to get through the same process. One problem is when a black guy gets hired and a white guy does not automatically somewhere in his mind he will probably think that he was not hired and the other guy was is because he was black. You dont think guys or women have come out of interviews unhired thinking it was because he was black or she was a woman? and none ever stop to think it was because the other applicants had better interviews. You were a P-3 driver how many of your squadron mates walked in your resume or how many have you walked in? now how many Marine or army Aviators resume's did you walk in I would dare say not many if any because those are not the circles you run in, and of those that you have how many were black pilots?. Is this unfair for you or your squadron mates to jump to the front of the line because you knew someone? and we both know that this happens because if any Marine came through I would do whatever I could to get him onboard. So what's the difference or are you saying it's ok to make a end run around the process as long as you are not black or a woman? Again Obap target's inner city kids that many feel like if they dont run with the ball the only way to any financial success is criminal activity and we are a group of pilots that come from those same communities trying to show them a different path and we are just one group of proffesionals that give of our time in this manner there are groups of black Engineers Doctors Lawyers and so forth that came from the "Hood" and were at one point knuckleheads and found away out doing something different that what I described before. You say they target who they help based on race, somewhat true, as stated before it's mostly inner city areas they target which you have already said have been harmed in the past, but if you go to these areas and knock on ten doors who do you think will answer the majority of the time people who look like you or people who look like me. If we went to gated upper class communities and knocked on ten doors who do you think would answer the majority of the time people who look like you or people who look like me. So it stands to reason if you target a certain area the majority of the participants would fit the demographic of that area. So as white cloud said if we dont go into where we grew up and try to make a change who will? the fact of the matter is even if your heart was in the right place, the Organization of White Airline Pilots would not make the same impact to inner city black kids as OBAP would. You asked how many white's recieved scholarships from OBAP? to my knowledge...none, then again I dont recall seeing to many black's taking pictures for AOPA scholarships or very many other's that didn't envolve a football or a basketball. Through the professional pilot development program OBAP takes and young person from zero time matches him dollar for dollar on his training all the way through CFI,II & MEI mentoring him all the way through and again the majority are black but not all. If SWA UAL USA DAL choose to support that with type rating scholarships we thank them for thier support, and make no mistake no one makes that type of commitment unless they think there is something in it for them even if it's just a tax write off or maybe they see the same issues and think we have a good fix for the problem that thier business can help with. You said you came from the other side of the tracks so on some levels you can relate and maybe even more than I would ever know so open invitation me and you go to a ACE camp or we'll do pilots in schools together and we can even goto an all white school, if you will goto one with me in the "hood", that way you can make an informed opinion based off of your own experiences. PM me when your ready