Why United Airlines will fail again

[FlyUnited]

Right. So am I to understand correctly that if this does work out in United's favor, you will come back here and apologize? Or will you just make excuses?

 

[G4G5]

Right. So am I to understand correctly that if this does work out in United's favor, you will come back here and apologize? Or will you just make excuses?

Apologize for what? If it doesn't work out it's because of you leadership, hence my point.

No excuses, like I have alredy said I have lived through one airline's shut down and don't wish it upon anyone.

 

[FlyUnited]

So even if United comes out the darling of the skies, you see nothing wrong in how you've treated your fellow aviators. Good enough, thanks for proving exactly what type of guy you are. (not like this is a big surprise to any on this board)

Hope the airline shutdowns don't follow you throughout your career but bad things somehow seems to follow people who wish nothing but bad on others. Good luck with that.

 

[G4G5]

So even if United comes out the darling of the skies, you see nothing wrong in how you've treated your fellow aviators. Good enough, thanks for proving exactly what type of guy you are. (not like this is a big surprise to any on this board)

Hope the airline shutdowns don't follow you throughout your career but bad things somehow seems to follow people who wish nothing but bad on others. Good luck with that.

Since you have decided to take the low road, I'll take the high road and just wish you, "good luck"

I think your statement after the BUT shows what type of guy you are. I have never openly wished bad luck to another aviator. You are a class act.

 

[AAflyer]

So even if United comes out the darling of the skies, you see nothing wrong in how you've treated your fellow aviators. Good enough, thanks for proving exactly what type of guy you are. (not like this is a big surprise to any on this board)

Hope the airline shutdowns don't follow you throughout your career but bad things somehow seems to follow people who wish nothing but bad on others. Good luck with that.

FlyUnited,

Not really sure where G4G5 said anything demeaning to you or your fellow UAL employees. I do however agree with his comments on your management team. They raped the employees and just gave themselves bonuses that are out of this world. (How do you feel about this, what about your fellow employees?) I also have not seen a dramatic change of UAL's business model.

I don't think anyone (except a few pathetic individuals) would wish UAL or any other airline out of business.

Regards,

AA

 

[Andy]

Now it looks to me like he is trying to pull the company out of Ch11 too early just so he can cash in on his stock options.

WOW! That's the first time that I've heard someone say that United is coming out of Ch11 too early.
UAL is the largest airline that has declared Ch11. I haven't verified this, but I've seen in print that they spent the longest time of any airline in Ch11.
Early in UAL's BK, Tilton said that he would not have UAL emerge from BK until UAL got every benefit of filing Ch11 (that's a paraphrase; if it's a big point of contention, I'll dig up a reference). I don't know how many more benefits UAL would see in Ch11; CASM ex-fuel has been reduced significantly.

I'm not happy with senior executive salaries in corporate America, but Tilton is receiving market compensation for what he's done. It wouldn't matter if UAL emerged this year or next, Tilton would still receive a ludicrously high (by our standards) compensation package. Unfortunately, ludicrously high compensation packages are the norm in corporate America.

But let me throw this back in your court. Since you think that more needed to be done at UAL, tell everyone what you would have done if you were 'king for a day.' I wouldn't change too much (I'd fire a lot of middle managers and replace them with ones who understood how to use positive motivation, at least on occasion), but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. You seem to think that you're a lot sharper than UAL's senior management; let us know what changes you would make.

 

[Andy]

I don't think anyone (except a few pathetic individuals) would wish UAL or any other airline out of business.

In the post-911 world, many employees view the airline industry as a zero sum game. So I do think that there are many that would like to see UAL/AMR/CAL/LCC/DAL/NWAC/LUV/JBLU/AAI/ALA (insert whatever airline you like) go out of business. Just as long as it's not their airline.

 

[boeing747-800]

787Bluejuice...how them embraers working for ya? I give you 5 years.

 

[BigRed1]

UAL's plan may not be perfect, but they used the BK process to its fullest and now it is time to move on while contintuing to IMPROVE in every aspect, from cost cutting to revenue enhancements and operation execution, etc. This is not the end game, but rather the begining.

Remember...You don't have to outrun the bear, just outrun the other guy trying to outrun the bear.

In this business, there are a lot of other airlines that are still trying to outrun the bear. UAL's plan may not be perfect, but until all you other yahoos at airlines still losing money by the hundreds of millions start earning a profit, Shut the h*ll up and worry about your own problems. If your company becomes profitable and UAL is still losing money, then you can throw yet more stones.

Thanks.

 

[bluejuice787]

787Bluejuice...how them embraers working for ya? I give you 5 years.

Let's see...we have all of seven (7) of them. They have been in service since..uh..late November. Uh...pretty new fleet type and we are the launch customer for the 190. Uh...Is that all you got?

 

[bluejuice787]

I'm not happy with senior executive salaries in corporate America, but Tilton is receiving market compensation for what he's done. It wouldn't matter if UAL emerged this year or next, Tilton would still receive a ludicrously high (by our standards) compensation package. Unfortunately, ludicrously high compensation packages are the norm in corporate America.

But let me throw this back in your court. Since you think that more needed to be done at UAL, tell everyone what you would have done if you were 'king for a day.' I wouldn't change too much (I'd fire a lot of middle managers and replace them with ones who understood how to use positive motivation, at least on occasion), but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. You seem to think that you're a lot sharper than UAL's senior management; let us know what changes you would make.

OK what is "market compensation for what he has done"? We 300+ million Americans need to get rid of the idea that a corporate leader needs to be compensated the way they do.

This is a bit philosophical but stick with me...The Japaneese and Germans have managed to accomplish much greater with far less spent. They also seem to do it with an eye down the road. In other words they have business plans that extend beyond this year and sometimes 5 to 10 years. Todays leaders in America look entirely at near term stock. This is one of the reasons we are so infatuated with the day to day market. It is also the reason many of todays big businesses are "shells" of the past. (United still has wonderful "rank and file" employees but the rot at the top is destroying any real hope of a future) The reasons they do this is because of the type of compensation. Just look at the vesting schedule of Tilton and the others. By anyones standards that is out of control.

What would if I were King for a day...Well I would ask for two years...If granted I would not accept any stock compensation. I mean that, I would start by not accepting compensation that is detrimental to the long term survivability of the company. I would take my work to the rank and file and interface with them. I woulnd not wear designer suits and hide in an ivory tower. I would be honest with my people about the failures of our company and I would not make excuses. I would encourage my people by being a part of them rather than a leader from "on high". I would encourage each of my employees to envite as many of their frineds and family to come fly with us and see that we are sincere about service. I would try to get rid of the complexeties of multi-tier service. I would emphasize the extreme importance of every single customer to my people...not just the mileage plus whatever. Trailer park or High Roller they are allEqually essential.

That would be day one.

 

[IB6 UB9]

OK what is "market compensation for what he has done"? We 300+ million Americans need to get rid of the idea that a corporate leader needs to be compensated the way they do.

This is a bit philosophical but stick with me...The Japaneese and Germans have managed to accomplish much greater with far less spent. They also seem to do it with an eye down the road. In other words they have business plans that extend beyond this year and sometimes 5 to 10 years. Todays leaders in America look entirely at near term stock. This is one of the reasons we are so infatuated with the day to day market. It is also the reason many of todays big businesses are "shells" of the past. (United still has wonderful "rank and file" employees but the rot at the top is destroying any real hope of a future) The reasons they do this is because of the type of compensation. Just look at the vesting schedule of Tilton and the others. By anyones standards that is out of control.

What would if I were King for a day...Well I would ask for two years...If granted I would not accept any stock compensation. I mean that, I would start by not accepting compensation that is detrimental to the long term survivability of the company. I would take my work to the rank and file and interface with them. I woulnd not wear designer suits and hide in an ivory tower. I would be honest with my people about the failures of our company and I would not make excuses. I would encourage my people by being a part of them rather than a leader from "on high". I would encourage each of my employees to envite as many of their frineds and family to come fly with us and see that we are sincere about service. I would try to get rid of the complexeties of multi-tier service. I would emphasize the extreme importance of every single customer to my people...not just the mileage plus whatever. Trailer park or High Roller they are allEqually essential.

That would be day one.

Do that and I might consider going back. Something tells me though...

 

[WhiteCloud]

UAL's business tactics towards their contractors, employees and customers will be the ultimate cause of their failure.

 

[FlyUnited]

I give up. It's apparent that these guys have some serious hair up their nether regions and no amount of FACTS is going to change how they look at United. It's also obvious to the casual reader that they must have pinned some hopes upon United at some point in their lives to have such a serious and continual obsession with all things United. I wish you luck in your lives guys......you need help. Oh, and thanks for the 'congratulations' that most aviators give when they see their comrades get through something as daunting as we have been. Hope to see you on my jumpseat someday (I suggest you don't mention your screen names)

 

[bluejuice787]

I give up. It's apparent that these guys have some serious hair up their nether regions and no amount of FACTS is going to change how they look at United. It's also obvious to the casual reader that they must have pinned some hopes upon United at some point in their lives to have such a serious and continual obsession with all things United. I wish you luck in your lives guys......you need help. Oh, and thanks for the 'congratulations' that most aviators give when they see their comrades get through something as daunting as we have been. Hope to see you on my jumpseat someday (I suggest you don't mention your screen names)

FlyUnited-

I did not mean to offend you. I cannot recall ever posting anything related to United before (I could be wrong). I am simply giving an opinion. Not an attempt to gloat at the failure of my fellow pilots. My airline (JB) is the subject of nearly daily scruitny from many sources...some credible and others not so. I try not to take it personally and try to see the forrest through the trees. Perhaps you can use your influence as a pilot to remind your leaders of what you feel is the best route to long term success.

 

[FlyUnited]

http://www.whartonjournal.com/media/paper201/news/2006/01/30/News/Ted-Discovers.Success-
1519708.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.whartonjournal.com

Ted discovers success
By: Vik Krishnan & Vinayak Naik, WG'06 & WG'07

Issue date: 1/30/06 Section: News
How can an airline that charges for on-board food, offers beverages in measured quantities, and has a funny name be a success story?

Apparently, when your only choices are either to sink like Independence Air or book a permanent berth in bankruptcy court like US Airways, you start questioning the fundamental way you do business and improve your game. Of course, if you have a team of battle-hardened industry veterans supported by top notch Wharton-grade consultants, your odds are perhaps better than most. The fact that you are part of an industry colossus like United had its advantages too: established route structures, excellent aircraft maintenance facilities, and above all, easier brand association.

This is precisely how the story of Ted, the low cost carrier (LCC) within United Airlines, was described by Sean Donohue, the head of Ted and United Express; Allen Will, Director of Finance at Ted; and Andrew Watterson, Director of Mercer Management Consulting\'s Aviation Aerospace and Defense Practice.

The basic premise was simple: utilize just one aircraft type (Airbus A320), concentrate on leisure traveler dominated routes eliminate costly frills like food, increase capacity by replacing the first class cabin (usually filled by customers redeeming frequent flyer miles or upgrading from cheap fares anyway) with Premium Economy, and what do you get? PROFITS!

However, the path to profits was far from easy. From negotiations with possibly the strongest union in America, the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA), to rationalizing the Byzantine fare structure, to attempting to change the in-flight customer service, several key changes were necessary.
Enter Mercer Management Consulting with its team that included Wharton\'s own Vik Krishnan (WG\'06) and Matt Chou (WG\'07). For six months, this team of consultants helped Ted define specific attributes of the product offering, pricing structure, distribution strategy, marketing plan, and even the on-board seating configuration. Who knew that launching a new airline involved establishing guidelines for the amount of beverage a customer would be served, or developing an in-flight safety video that took safety seriously, but at the same time communicated the airline\'s relaxed brand image?

A creative agency also helped Ted develop a teaser campaign in the launch city, Denver, in which Ted performed \'random acts of kindness\' like paying for people\'s coffee at Starbucks, buying fans hot dogs at Denver Broncos football games, and even carving out the letters "T-e-d" in a crop circle in an unsuspecting farmer\'s corn field. The campaign, which cost less than $100,000 and won the prestigious 2005 EFFIE award for Integrated Marketing Communications, and received significant local and even national media attention. A lot of people wanted to know: "Who\'s Ted?"

Since Ted\'s February 2004 launch in Denver in the airline has expanded to United\'s other main hubs at Chicago O\'Hare and Washington-Dulles, has added aircrafts, and is now flying to Mexico and the Caribbean. In contrast to much of the industry, Ted broke even in 2005, even with elevated fuel prices.

While United\'s emergence from Chapter 11 restructuring this week is a positive development, the future of Ted is far from rosy. Several new challenges present themselves. The launch of Sir Richard Branson\'s Virgin America in the next year or so is a potent threat that could change the economics of the LCC industry in America. The industry veteran, Southwest, has declared open war in Ted\'s home turf of Denver. Add to that high fuel prices and the inherent challenges of changing company culture, and you have a horizon that becomes increasingly cloudy. However, Ted seems to be bracing itself for these renewed challenges. Tighter control on costs, quicker aircraft turnarounds - through the pioneering use of dual-end jet bridges to facilitate boarding and deplaning of passengers from both ends of the aircraft - and possibly fuel hedges, are some of the action items that Ted is working on.

The future of the U.S. aviation market, according to Ted, is a system of three to four legacy carriers with international routes complementing their domestic hub-and-spoke systems, and two to three LCCs providing point-to-point services for the budget traveler. With the backing of a stronger United, and a favorable reputation in the leisure market, Ted may very well be the first-of-a-kind success story of a legacy carrier\'s LCC unit surviving and thriving in this brutal industry.
How can an airline that charges for on-board food, offers beverages in measured quantities, and has a funny name be a success story?

Apparently, when your only choices are either to sink like Independence Air or book a permanent berth in bankruptcy court like US Airways, you start questioning the fundamental way you do business and improve your game. Of course, if you have a team of battle-hardened industry veterans supported by top notch Wharton-grade consultants, your odds are perhaps better than most. The fact that you are part of an industry colossus like United had its advantages too: established route structures, excellent aircraft maintenance facilities, and above all, easier brand association.

Ted started as an experiment within United two years ago. Its quirky name is derived from the last three letters of UniTED, and Sean was the first to admit that he originally believed that the name was the product of someone's wicked sense of humor. However, the name grew on the airline's management team, and United's employees have embraced their 'little sibling,' and view Ted as an opportunity for them to have fun at a time when very few legacy airline employees have much to celebrate.

The basic premise was simple: utilize just one aircraft type (Airbus A320), concentrate on leisure traveler dominated routes eliminate costly frills like food, increase capacity by replacing the first class cabin (usually filled by customers redeeming frequent flyer miles or upgrading from cheap fares anyway) with Premium Economy, and what do you get? PROFITS!

However, the path to profits was far from easy. From negotiations with possibly the strongest union in America, the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA), to rationalizing the Byzantine fare structure, to attempting to change the in-flight customer service, several key changes were necessary.
Enter Mercer Management Consulting with its team that included Wharton's own Vik Krishnan (WG'06) and Matt Chou (WG'07). For six months, this team of consultants helped Ted define specific attributes of the product offering, pricing structure, distribution strategy, marketing plan, and even the on-board seating configuration. Who knew that launching a new airline involved establishing guidelines for the amount of beverage a customer would be served, or developing an in-flight safety video that took safety seriously, but at the same time communicated the airline's relaxed brand image?

A creative agency also helped Ted develop a teaser campaign in the launch city, Denver, in which Ted performed 'random acts of kindness' like paying for people's coffee at Starbucks, buying fans hot dogs at Denver Broncos football games, and even carving out the letters "T-e-d" in a crop circle in an unsuspecting farmer's corn field. The campaign, which cost less than $100,000 and won the prestigious 2005 EFFIE award for Integrated Marketing Communications, and received significant local and even national media attention. A lot of people wanted to know: "Who's Ted?"

Since Ted's February 2004 launch in Denver in the airline has expanded to United's other main hubs at Chicago O'Hare and Washington-Dulles, has added aircrafts, and is now flying to Mexico and the Caribbean. In contrast to much of the industry, Ted broke even in 2005, even with elevated fuel prices.

While United's emergence from Chapter 11 restructuring this week is a positive development, the future of Ted is far from rosy. Several new challenges present themselves. The launch of Sir Richard Branson's Virgin America in the next year or so is a potent threat that could change the economics of the LCC industry in America. The industry veteran, Southwest, has declared open war in Ted's home turf of Denver. Add to that high fuel prices and the inherent challenges of changing company culture, and you have a horizon that becomes increasingly cloudy. However, Ted seems to be bracing itself for these renewed challenges. Tighter control on costs, quicker aircraft turnarounds - through the pioneering use of dual-end jet bridges to facilitate boarding and deplaning of passengers from both ends of the aircraft - and possibly fuel hedges, are some of the action items that Ted is working on.

The future of the U.S. aviation market, according to Ted, is a system of three to four legacy carriers with international routes complementing their domestic hub-and-spoke systems, and two to three LCCs providing point-to-point services for the budget traveler. With the backing of a stronger United, and a favorable reputation in the leisure market, Ted may very well be the first-of-a-kind success story of a legacy carrier's LCC unit surviving and thriving in this brutal industry.

 

[IB6 UB9]

I give up. It's apparent that these guys have some serious hair up their nether regions and no amount of FACTS is going to change how they look at United. It's also obvious to the casual reader that they must have pinned some hopes upon United at some point in their lives to have such a serious and continual obsession with all things United. I wish you luck in your lives guys......you need help. Oh, and thanks for the 'congratulations' that most aviators give when they see their comrades get through something as daunting as we have been. Hope to see you on my jumpseat someday (I suggest you don't mention your screen names)

I wish no ill will on anyone, and hope the best for the employees at United...everywhere for that matter. What sticks in my craw, though, is the bashing of the LCC's...the same ones that are hiring the castaway expendable employees of major airlines. Picture this if you may, an individual spends the better part of his/her career trying to get the time and credentials to be competitive and hopefully "win the lottery". When the planets and stars align just right one day it happens, only to have disaster strike and we see thousands of furloughs, pay slashed, work rules abolished, blah blah blah. While furloughed, you hear of fellow employees picking up overtime, ALPA and DW doing absolutely nothing except exactly what upper management is doing at these carriers (stealing from the employees), etc. You go out and get a job back in the industry instead of pounding nails and you get denied the jumpseat because you "are bringing down the industry". Shat like that. If there is such a thing as unity at United, NWA, Delta, I would like to see it. You say "thanks for the 'congratulations'......as daunting as we have been". I say where was my congratulations when I got out of the unemployment line as some of my former employees were out whoring the overtime and denying the jumpseat? I'd say some of us have been through just as "daunting", as you put it, experience. That being said, a sincere congratulations to the employees at UAL. I hope you resume/return to a long and prosperous career.

 

[hellas]

Going Global

im not with united but go pick up a Forbes magazine if you want to know where the legacies are going and what this administration is doing to help the beliguered industry........Global airlines ...3rd world pay....huge profits

 

[bluejuice787]

im not with united but go pick up a Forbes magazine if you want to know where the legacies are going and what this administration is doing to help the beliguered industry........Global airlines ...3rd world pay....huge profits

Forbes magazine as well as many other periodicals in the finantial world care much about the same things as coorporate raiders...short term gain.

 

[AA717driver]

I don't think anyone (except a few pathetic individuals) would wish UAL or any other airline out of business.

Regards,

AA

AA--Actually, in the late '90's a couple of UAL pilots in the COS C-130 AFRES squadron cornered one of their squadronmates and said: "Why don't you guys (TWA) just do the right thing and go out of business?"

That's who I want flying with me in combat...

Sorry, AA, but there's plenty of that sentiment out there. The UAL people are getting a very small taste. You just haven't been in a position to experience it--I hope you never will.

Andy--I am ex-TWA. You guys have a long way to go. Hope you don't take that route.

Also, I forgot who called G4G5 a RJ pilot. He's not. He's a GV captain. Besides, RJ pilots work harder than any Legacy pilot ever thought of working.TC

 

[32LT10]

AA--Actually, in the late '90's a couple of UAL pilots in the COS C-130 AFRES squadron cornered one of their squadronmates and said: "Why don't you guys (TWA) just do the right thing and go out of business?"

That's who I want flying with me in combat...

Sorry, AA, but there's plenty of that sentiment out there. The UAL people are getting a very small taste. You just haven't been in a position to experience it--I hope you never will.



Also, I forgot who called G4G5 a RJ pilot. He's not. He's a GV captain. Besides, RJ pilots work harder than any Legacy pilot ever thought of working.TC

What is the difference between a G4 and an RJ? 5'? Glad to hear RJ pilots work harder. How about the float plane pilots in AK? Bet there workload is higher than any PFT RJ newbie.

You don't like UAL pilots for something that was said to you by guy(s) in some military squadron? Like that small sampling is the basis for an evaluation of what at the time was close to 10,000 pilots. That reflects an extremely narrow minded view of the world, the inability to understand the ego boasting in the squadron and the lack of an ability to recognize the real enemy in your demise. Did the UAL pilots stick you at the bottom of the AA list?

 

[DIAMONDDD]

32LT10,
I, personally, didn't have anything against anyone at UAL......until today. I heard on the radio a UAL guy mess up his call sign. To me, that is the biggest sin in aviation. Now I wish nothing but the worst for every single one of the UAL pilots.

 

[XTW]

.
You don't like UAL pilots for something that was said to you by guy(s) in some military squadron? Like that small sampling is the basis for an evaluation of what at the time was close to 10,000 pilots. That reflects an extremely narrow minded view of the world, the inability to understand the ego boasting in the squadron and the lack of an ability to recognize the real enemy in your demise. quote]


32LT10,

I don't see anything in AA717's post that states that anything was said to him personally. This shows how good your reading comprehension really is.

The "just go out of business" attitude and type of statements were not just from UAL pilots, but from individual pilots from the rest of the "legacy" carriers also. It got old after a while, and we didn't spend 3+ years in Ch. 11.

I hope the best for you guys. I hate to see anyone get tossed to the street any time, not just today's environment.

X

 

[AA717driver]

32LT--What's the difference between a G4 and a RJ? If you have to ask, you can't understand...

I don't have anything against UAL pilots. I have something against people making personal attacks against someone just because they are pointing out certain aspects of a company's business picture.

He's doing you a favor, actually. Maybe if we hadn't blown sunshine up our own skirts at TWA in the early 90's when we first came out of Ch.11 we'd have left for FEX or SWA.

All three of us (G4G5, XTW and I) are planning on passing up recall at AA. Why? Because we've seen what having double-digit billions in debt can do to the long-term prospects of a company that has mortgaged every asset it has to the hilt.

When you get the unvarnished truth, you're gonna get some splinters.

XTW--Did you already walk across the parking lot to the 7-11 and get your six pack and Slim Jim? TC

 

[G4G5]

What is the difference between a G4 and an RJ?

About $150,000 a year, plus stock options, profit sharing, pension, 401k match and a bonus.

Nights in real, quality hotels with all expenses paid for don't hurt either. (CEO's tend to go to nice places)

Woops, I almost forgot the free laptop

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I like UAL and was treat nice for 2 years out of DEN

Must really suck for you in your little RJ life G4. I can't believe your obsession with all things United related. Have any of you flown on United recently? We always take care of the other airlines, we always put you in first when available (something MOST of you don't do), our service has been receiving award winning responses, our p.s. service is second to none, we still board pillows and blankets (even on Ted), we still offer economy plus seating instead of cramming you into the can like most others have gone, and we still have the incredible route structure which you all guaranteed us we would sell before emerging. So please, tell me what we're doing wrong. How I seen it, United is defining itself as the ONLY airlines that still offers amenities among the legacies.

As for $50 bbl, that's over the long term of 10 years. Right now we need $67 to break even.


Good job United. Glad to see you made it.

I commuted for two years on UAL during the bancrupcy and was always treated very well by the crews. It had a feel like TWA as far as taking care of each other. All this airline bashing is a waste of energy. There are a lot of great people at airlines that are struggling. I wish the fine folks at United all the best and will be glad to see many return to the work force.

Jeff

 

[AAflyer]

What is the difference between a G4 and an RJ?

About $150,000 a year, plus stock options, profit sharing, pension, 401k match and a bonus.

Nights in real, quality hotels with all expenses paid for don't hurt either. (CEO's tend to go to nice places)

Woops, I almost forgot the free laptop

Holy COW!

Are you hiring?

AA

No, I am not kidding..

 

[IB6 UB9]

What is the difference between a G4 and an RJ? 5'? Glad to hear RJ pilots work harder. How about the float plane pilots in AK? Bet there workload is higher than any PFT RJ newbie.

You don't like UAL pilots for something that was said to you by guy(s) in some military squadron? Like that small sampling is the basis for an evaluation of what at the time was close to 10,000 pilots. That reflects an extremely narrow minded view of the world, the inability to understand the ego boasting in the squadron and the lack of an ability to recognize the real enemy in your demise. Did the UAL pilots stick you at the bottom of the AA list?

UAL was NORDO today, death to all who work there!

 

[G4G5]

WOW! That's the first time that I've heard someone say that United is coming out of Ch11 too early.
It's been somewhere around 37 months, what's the rush? You want to get it right because unlike when CAL and TWA did it, you can't go back (at least not to the same cushion you have now). The laws changed on 10/17/05, the new laws will not be as favorable (24 months max in CH11, then ch7). People seem to forget this, where was UAL over a year ago? Not ready to exit ch11.
Who is the one telling UAL has gotten all that it could get out of the ch11 process. Tilton? One of the consultants or lawyers, who have made millions off of UAL? I haven't seen it written anywhere credible. On the contrary all I see is articles saying enough has not been done.

But let me throw this back in your court. Since you think that more needed to be done at UAL, tell everyone what you would have done if you were 'king for a day.' I wouldn't change too much (I'd fire a lot of middle managers and replace them with ones who understood how to use positive motivation, at least on occasion), but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. You seem to think that you're a lot sharper than UAL's senior management; let us know what changes you would make.

UAL's mgt stinks. How is it UAL goes through an extensive search for a CEO and winds up with Tilton and Dave Neelman can get Dave Barger? What does an oil man know about the service industry? I would have looked for someone internal to the airline business maybe a high level person over at SWA, or someone who grew up under a world class CEO like GE's Jack Welch or someone internal to Gerstner's IBM turn around buts thats just me. I mean after all Tilton did have months of CEO experience over seeing the sale of Texaco. Oh by the way why was Texaco sold, because it's managers (like Tilton) did such a good job running the company?

What would I do?
Continue to pressure to lower the debt. It's beyond comprehension how UAL could be exiting ch11 with more debt then AMR has (without the benefit of ch11).

Continue to operate in ch 11 until the summertime and exit ch11 with a boat load of cash after operating all summer in ch11.

That would have allowed UAL to exit ch11 without having to go to Tony Soprano to mortgage the house for a loan. More cash after the summer means less borrowed from Chase. As if screwing UAL on the loan was not enough look into the details of the FF program now that Chase has it.

Either go all TED or not, don't come out ch11 with a mixed bag and mixed signals. I still don't know what UAL is, is it TED or premium service on a 757 only from coast to coast, or is it the leader to the Pacific? To me it's just an airline exiting CH11. He has done nothing to market it's strengths.

Concentrate more on your Star alliance partners. AMR survives with little or no Pacific presence. How do they do it? Rely more on STAR, tie more of UAL's success to theirs. Let the STAR partners pick up more of the low yeild European, South America and Latin America flights. Make it painful for them, if you go out of business, they won't want to lose the feed. Right now UAL is too proud to admit that AMR and CAL own the Latin/South America flying Or that CAL and DAL control most of the European flights. Concentrate where you make money stop trying to be the all powerful international carrier. Those days are gone.

Feet simplicity is a key in reducing costs. The first thing AMR did when they ran into trouble, was drop the more room in coach and reconfigure everything For example AMR operates one type of 777 or MD80 no matter where it's operated. How many different types of configured 777, A320 or 757's does UAL continue to operate? "United will emerge from the most costly bankruptcy in American history with 26 separate in-flight seat"

Wait in ch11 until the price of oil is such that you could at least establish some sort of fuel hedging program. Right now UAL has nothing and is relying on ticket price increases to combat the rise in fuel costs. Now is not the time to exit ch11, when UAL can even control the price of a ticket at it hub? Did you notice how SWA increased it's prices at most places except Denver, what does that tell you?

You don't exit ch11 with a plan based on $50 oil when oil is $67, you wait.

Institute a turn around program that promotes employee participation. UAL wins, we all win. On time equals money, profit equals money, kick SWA but in DEN equals money, whatever it is, people are motivated by money. That stock option mess is going to do more harm then good. You like to defend Tilton, did Bethune get a similar package over at CAL when they were exiting CH11?

I could go on and on but it's late and I am only going to get ripped for this tomorrow.

 

[GuppyWN]

Ever heard the one about the UAL gal pestering center for a shortcut? Some unknown voice came over the radio and said "just be patient sweetie, your whole career has been a shortcut."

Stepping off the ridgeline,
Gup