Why United Airlines will fail again

[FlyUnited]

Right. So am I to understand correctly that if this does work out in United's favor, you will come back here and apologize? Or will you just make excuses?

 

[G4G5]

Right. So am I to understand correctly that if this does work out in United's favor, you will come back here and apologize? Or will you just make excuses?

Apologize for what? If it doesn't work out it's because of you leadership, hence my point.

No excuses, like I have alredy said I have lived through one airline's shut down and don't wish it upon anyone.

 

[FlyUnited]

So even if United comes out the darling of the skies, you see nothing wrong in how you've treated your fellow aviators. Good enough, thanks for proving exactly what type of guy you are. (not like this is a big surprise to any on this board)

Hope the airline shutdowns don't follow you throughout your career but bad things somehow seems to follow people who wish nothing but bad on others. Good luck with that.

 

[G4G5]

So even if United comes out the darling of the skies, you see nothing wrong in how you've treated your fellow aviators. Good enough, thanks for proving exactly what type of guy you are. (not like this is a big surprise to any on this board)

Hope the airline shutdowns don't follow you throughout your career but bad things somehow seems to follow people who wish nothing but bad on others. Good luck with that.

Since you have decided to take the low road, I'll take the high road and just wish you, "good luck"

I think your statement after the BUT shows what type of guy you are. I have never openly wished bad luck to another aviator. You are a class act.

 

[AAflyer]

So even if United comes out the darling of the skies, you see nothing wrong in how you've treated your fellow aviators. Good enough, thanks for proving exactly what type of guy you are. (not like this is a big surprise to any on this board)

Hope the airline shutdowns don't follow you throughout your career but bad things somehow seems to follow people who wish nothing but bad on others. Good luck with that.

FlyUnited,

Not really sure where G4G5 said anything demeaning to you or your fellow UAL employees. I do however agree with his comments on your management team. They raped the employees and just gave themselves bonuses that are out of this world. (How do you feel about this, what about your fellow employees?) I also have not seen a dramatic change of UAL's business model.

I don't think anyone (except a few pathetic individuals) would wish UAL or any other airline out of business.

Regards,

AA

 

[Andy]

Now it looks to me like he is trying to pull the company out of Ch11 too early just so he can cash in on his stock options.

WOW! That's the first time that I've heard someone say that United is coming out of Ch11 too early.
UAL is the largest airline that has declared Ch11. I haven't verified this, but I've seen in print that they spent the longest time of any airline in Ch11.
Early in UAL's BK, Tilton said that he would not have UAL emerge from BK until UAL got every benefit of filing Ch11 (that's a paraphrase; if it's a big point of contention, I'll dig up a reference). I don't know how many more benefits UAL would see in Ch11; CASM ex-fuel has been reduced significantly.

I'm not happy with senior executive salaries in corporate America, but Tilton is receiving market compensation for what he's done. It wouldn't matter if UAL emerged this year or next, Tilton would still receive a ludicrously high (by our standards) compensation package. Unfortunately, ludicrously high compensation packages are the norm in corporate America.

But let me throw this back in your court. Since you think that more needed to be done at UAL, tell everyone what you would have done if you were 'king for a day.' I wouldn't change too much (I'd fire a lot of middle managers and replace them with ones who understood how to use positive motivation, at least on occasion), but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. You seem to think that you're a lot sharper than UAL's senior management; let us know what changes you would make.

 

[Andy]

I don't think anyone (except a few pathetic individuals) would wish UAL or any other airline out of business.

In the post-911 world, many employees view the airline industry as a zero sum game. So I do think that there are many that would like to see UAL/AMR/CAL/LCC/DAL/NWAC/LUV/JBLU/AAI/ALA (insert whatever airline you like) go out of business. Just as long as it's not their airline.

 

[boeing747-800]

787Bluejuice...how them embraers working for ya? I give you 5 years.

 

[BigRed1]

UAL's plan may not be perfect, but they used the BK process to its fullest and now it is time to move on while contintuing to IMPROVE in every aspect, from cost cutting to revenue enhancements and operation execution, etc. This is not the end game, but rather the begining.

Remember...You don't have to outrun the bear, just outrun the other guy trying to outrun the bear.

In this business, there are a lot of other airlines that are still trying to outrun the bear. UAL's plan may not be perfect, but until all you other yahoos at airlines still losing money by the hundreds of millions start earning a profit, Shut the h*ll up and worry about your own problems. If your company becomes profitable and UAL is still losing money, then you can throw yet more stones.

Thanks.

 

[bluejuice787]

787Bluejuice...how them embraers working for ya? I give you 5 years.

Let's see...we have all of seven (7) of them. They have been in service since..uh..late November. Uh...pretty new fleet type and we are the launch customer for the 190. Uh...Is that all you got?

 

[bluejuice787]

I'm not happy with senior executive salaries in corporate America, but Tilton is receiving market compensation for what he's done. It wouldn't matter if UAL emerged this year or next, Tilton would still receive a ludicrously high (by our standards) compensation package. Unfortunately, ludicrously high compensation packages are the norm in corporate America.

But let me throw this back in your court. Since you think that more needed to be done at UAL, tell everyone what you would have done if you were 'king for a day.' I wouldn't change too much (I'd fire a lot of middle managers and replace them with ones who understood how to use positive motivation, at least on occasion), but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. You seem to think that you're a lot sharper than UAL's senior management; let us know what changes you would make.

OK what is "market compensation for what he has done"? We 300+ million Americans need to get rid of the idea that a corporate leader needs to be compensated the way they do.

This is a bit philosophical but stick with me...The Japaneese and Germans have managed to accomplish much greater with far less spent. They also seem to do it with an eye down the road. In other words they have business plans that extend beyond this year and sometimes 5 to 10 years. Todays leaders in America look entirely at near term stock. This is one of the reasons we are so infatuated with the day to day market. It is also the reason many of todays big businesses are "shells" of the past. (United still has wonderful "rank and file" employees but the rot at the top is destroying any real hope of a future) The reasons they do this is because of the type of compensation. Just look at the vesting schedule of Tilton and the others. By anyones standards that is out of control.

What would if I were King for a day...Well I would ask for two years...If granted I would not accept any stock compensation. I mean that, I would start by not accepting compensation that is detrimental to the long term survivability of the company. I would take my work to the rank and file and interface with them. I woulnd not wear designer suits and hide in an ivory tower. I would be honest with my people about the failures of our company and I would not make excuses. I would encourage my people by being a part of them rather than a leader from "on high". I would encourage each of my employees to envite as many of their frineds and family to come fly with us and see that we are sincere about service. I would try to get rid of the complexeties of multi-tier service. I would emphasize the extreme importance of every single customer to my people...not just the mileage plus whatever. Trailer park or High Roller they are allEqually essential.

That would be day one.

 

[IB6 UB9]

OK what is "market compensation for what he has done"? We 300+ million Americans need to get rid of the idea that a corporate leader needs to be compensated the way they do.

This is a bit philosophical but stick with me...The Japaneese and Germans have managed to accomplish much greater with far less spent. They also seem to do it with an eye down the road. In other words they have business plans that extend beyond this year and sometimes 5 to 10 years. Todays leaders in America look entirely at near term stock. This is one of the reasons we are so infatuated with the day to day market. It is also the reason many of todays big businesses are "shells" of the past. (United still has wonderful "rank and file" employees but the rot at the top is destroying any real hope of a future) The reasons they do this is because of the type of compensation. Just look at the vesting schedule of Tilton and the others. By anyones standards that is out of control.

What would if I were King for a day...Well I would ask for two years...If granted I would not accept any stock compensation. I mean that, I would start by not accepting compensation that is detrimental to the long term survivability of the company. I would take my work to the rank and file and interface with them. I woulnd not wear designer suits and hide in an ivory tower. I would be honest with my people about the failures of our company and I would not make excuses. I would encourage my people by being a part of them rather than a leader from "on high". I would encourage each of my employees to envite as many of their frineds and family to come fly with us and see that we are sincere about service. I would try to get rid of the complexeties of multi-tier service. I would emphasize the extreme importance of every single customer to my people...not just the mileage plus whatever. Trailer park or High Roller they are allEqually essential.

That would be day one.

Do that and I might consider going back. Something tells me though...

 

[WhiteCloud]

UAL's business tactics towards their contractors, employees and customers will be the ultimate cause of their failure.

 

[FlyUnited]

I give up. It's apparent that these guys have some serious hair up their nether regions and no amount of FACTS is going to change how they look at United. It's also obvious to the casual reader that they must have pinned some hopes upon United at some point in their lives to have such a serious and continual obsession with all things United. I wish you luck in your lives guys......you need help. Oh, and thanks for the 'congratulations' that most aviators give when they see their comrades get through something as daunting as we have been. Hope to see you on my jumpseat someday (I suggest you don't mention your screen names)

 

[bluejuice787]

I give up. It's apparent that these guys have some serious hair up their nether regions and no amount of FACTS is going to change how they look at United. It's also obvious to the casual reader that they must have pinned some hopes upon United at some point in their lives to have such a serious and continual obsession with all things United. I wish you luck in your lives guys......you need help. Oh, and thanks for the 'congratulations' that most aviators give when they see their comrades get through something as daunting as we have been. Hope to see you on my jumpseat someday (I suggest you don't mention your screen names)

FlyUnited-

I did not mean to offend you. I cannot recall ever posting anything related to United before (I could be wrong). I am simply giving an opinion. Not an attempt to gloat at the failure of my fellow pilots. My airline (JB) is the subject of nearly daily scruitny from many sources...some credible and others not so. I try not to take it personally and try to see the forrest through the trees. Perhaps you can use your influence as a pilot to remind your leaders of what you feel is the best route to long term success.