Why no bases at Flex?

[FastJP4]

The base thing is pretty silly, that could vastly improve many individuals QOL without costing any money.

I think the saddest part is the Flex pilots having to work 208 days a year to make what the NJ & CS pilots make in 184 days. That puts Flex a distant third in that category - just ahead of FLOPS. If/when FLOPS gets their contract done - Flex will be #4 out of the big 4. "Best in Class"..............................................

 

[fischman]

Voting in a union sure did alot for FLOPS....two years, no contract, crappy morale, shrinking market share, no new planes....oh, and no pay raises.

These things take time.

Patience my young padawan...

 

[Club ORD FO]

But the thing with Bases, is they could SAVE the company money. Right? or am I way off base (pun intended)? It is no secret that orlando is almost always cheaper than MIA or Lauderdale. Same thing with PHX over LA. It is also one of the easiest things to implement. A little bit of research on parking rates and other airports in the area and we're good to go.

I just wish the CAB and the company would discuss it and come up with a solution.

 

[DirtyBeech]

The CAB can't even get their meeting notes out within a month of the meeting. Sorry, not much faith there.

Everything I've heard with research and whatnot says that some new bases would actually save us money. Why we don't do it? Who knows.

Unfortunately, we can't get our group to stick together during the good times so there's not an ice cube's chance in hedoubletoothpicks that we'll take a stand on this one.

 

[Dooker]

But when a senior Captain argues that the Lear 85 should be on the same payscale as the smaller Lears "because its a Lear and you young guys need to work your way up just like I did ..." well, you can't argue with that dumb logic. (This is the same guy, by the way, who could not get hired at any major in the last 12 years ......)

I love it when I hear these 12-plus-year guys kvetch about having to "work your way up." A good number of the ones I've flown with were just pure lucky to get hired on when they did. They flew a token amount of time in a Lear and then--bam!--they upgraded into the CL60 in some insanely short period of time.

Which, I might add, is why I'm opposed to this new "healthy crew meal" initiative. Some of these guys are just a few trans-fats away from slumping over in their seats.

 

[BAT31]

I see two different camps at Flex: The more senior group that mostly came from the charter world. And the other is the recent hires that I think came from regionals and the military and actually chose to come to the fractional world after seeing the majors crumble.

How do these two groups work together .... well not extremely well, but anything can work. We must have a collective voice that works WITH management to achieve our goals. (A collective voice that has some organizational power)

Without that, you will accept whatever is handed your way. I just prefer more say in my future. And like the others have said, if you think, for one minute, we would have gotten a pay raise without the NJ boys working for it, then you are clueless. They worked it, and the market conditions helped their cause, but without their organization, it would not have helped them.

Just give it some thought.

 

[AirChef]

BAT31:

I don't understand what your problem is with the senior pilots at Flexjet. I'm very senior and come from the 121 world, in fact, I used the 121 time to get to Flexjet. What is the difference between I guy who chose to come here twelve years ago as a gamble and a furloughed airline guy today. (Stop with the, "He upgraded in only 5 months." We all know timing is everything in LIFE.)
Do I share your base problem? NO, I live in a beautiful house and have no desire to move. I do support your efforts.
Do I support more money and time off, Yes.
Do I want a union? Not Netjets (we can learn from them and should work closely). I would support our own in-house like SWA.
Take emotion out of your argument and simply state the facts and you will increase your audience.

 

[fischman]

NJASAP has no plans to unionize the entire fractional industry. That is why it is called "NETJETS Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots."

Good luck to all.

 

[Flex-ible]

I love it when I hear these 12-plus-year guys kvetch about having to "work your way up." A good number of the ones I've flown with were just pure lucky to get hired on when they did. They flew a token amount of time in a Lear and then--bam!--they upgraded into the CL60 in some insanely short period of time.

Which, I might add, is why I'm opposed to this new "healthy crew meal" initiative. Some of these guys are just a few trans-fats away from slumping over in their seats.

Sick, really sick. Which is why I laughed out loud....better get to the hotel fitness room so I don't have to order my new uniform pants in a size 50.

 

[JokerFuel]

C'mon guys, it's no secret. We have no leverage here. If we don't form a collective voice in unity we can never shape our destiny at Flex. We had no collective bargaining power when management came out with the pay raise. If we would have held the line and continued with our union endeavour after the pay offer, management would have upped the ante. We have no-one to blame but each other. The question is, "Where do we go from here?". We still have the power to elicit change, the question is, do we have the cohesion to do so. Unfortunately, my observation is that we don't. I want bases, I want real rest rules, I want to have what the other guys have. We are constantly hammered with the "Best in class" BS. If we are that, (IF) then don't we deserve a best in class lifestyle? In every aspect. Together we could do it. I want my company to succeed, but I also want to be a benifactor of that success.

 

[BAT31]

Air Chef-

Hey bud, take a breath. I really don't have a problem with the senior pilots at Flex. Most are awesome. I was suprised at the way many senior guys just don't seem to care about having a say in their destiny. It is my observation. The guy who adamantly argued that the Lear 85 should be on a lower scale than the 300 .... well, those were his words. I used that as an example, a bit extreme for sure, of the mentality that I have witnessed.

As for bases, you've never heard me talk about that. I did not apply to Flex until they opened a base in my home town. That was the deciding factor for me. But, I am willing to work towards getting more bases for the people that want them. It won't help me, but I want other pilots to have the ability to move. Especially if it helps the company save money.

If my comments came off as divisive, then I retract that post.

I really think we are all on the same team. Lets work together, collectively, with management, and improve some things. "Best of the best" and all that ............

You and I agree on the in house thing. Doesn't have to be big, but it could certainly model NJ. They seem to have a good handle on how to work it.

Thanks.

 

[hammer2]

The base thing is pretty silly, that could vastly improve many individuals QOL without costing any money.

I think the saddest part is the Flex pilots having to work 208 days a year to make what the NJ & CS pilots make in 184 days. That puts Flex a distant third in that category - just ahead of FLOPS. If/when FLOPS gets their contract done - Flex will be #4 out of the big 4. "Best in Class"..............................................

AMEN!!!!!!!!

 

[notapilot]

Many at Flex sold out on a focused pay rasie this last year. Anyone who has been here for any amount of time knew that would be the end of any improvements. I hope that we all understand how things work now and we will be more successful the next time around. As far as the 85 goes, there isn't much a difference between Lear and Challenger captain pay by the time someone gets to the seniority for the 85. You are splitting hairs. This last raise the company threw money at new hires and captains at 5 years or less. You all took the bait and now unfortunately have to live with your decisions. A few month ago I got my yearly raise. It was net $50.00 a check. Time keeps ticking and this is now what you have to look forward to. Good job.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah some people were definitely blinded by the pay raise. but we still lag way behind in QOL issues. I would agree that I the teamsters may not be right for us, and an in house union is a better idea. It works for SWA, why not us too? Plus a lot of the naysayers were against "giving money to the mob" or "being in the same union as our competition." but whatever, with an in house we are totally in charge But then the question is, how do we do it, and who has the balls to take the charge?

 

[skyismyoffice]

But then the question is, how do we do it, and who has the balls to take the charge?

Or the money. It is expensive! With the 1108 you would get the backing and resources of the current membership and the National Union.

 

[bunman45]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya
But then the question is, how do we do it, and who has the balls to take the charge?

No one has the balls.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Well, I keep hearing that another big raise is coming next year (larger than the last one). Sorry to be this way fellas but, if it comes down to a handful of people living where they want or ALL of us getting a large raise, I take the raise. Our group is so small that opening more bases only benefits probably 1% of the group. The argument that it attracts more applicants is not a valid point either. I feel we are still below standard pay and if they boost our pay above Netjets next year, (which it sounds like they will), then start asking for benefits. Keep in mind too that if we get this raise, Netjets will be behind and they will have to wait, what, 4 more years to get another. Remember, there are advantages on both sides.

 

[Nolife]

Who's talking another raise? I haven't heard about it... if anything the company could take away the raise and blame the economy. However I've heard that business is good and Flex is making money so another raise is possible but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[jonjuan]

As Judge Smails would say. "You'll get nothing and like it!"

http://www.hiddentracktv.com/2008/07/caddyshack-youll-get-nothing-and-like.html

 

[JokerFuel]

The raise rumor is going around. If it happens it will again quell the attempts to improve QOL issues at Flex. The notes from the last CAB meeting summed it up, the baseing issue is dead beacause they have no staffing issues. If the basing issue only affects 1% of the crewmembers then why would it even be an issue? That is to say, the cost of making 1% of all crewmembers happy should be very small. I truely believe that if Flex would improve QOL issues, it would go from being a great job, to being the best flying job around. Just the opinion of a humble one percenter.......