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Why no bases at Flex?

Inigo Montoya

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Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Posts
78
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8000+
Dear FLIFO, Earlier this year, we got a pay raise which was cool, but there were no QOL improvements that everybody was asking for. We heard this big speech about how QOL change was going to come, and all these committees they were forming and blah blah blah. Well not a whole hell of a lot has happened. We got a strange end of rest rule, a revamped lunch menu, and new uniforms. Where are the new bases we were told they were evaluating? What the heck is the holdup? Every other frac out there has at least 20 bases, and we have 5. The pilot group has offered lots of suggestions on how to help ease the cost (if there is any) to the company, yet management just says no no no. Not even willing to work out some sort of compromise. And the CAB sounds like they have more or less given up. Compromise....lets come up with something to make it happen. Want me to pay for my hotel in training? fine, done, lets go. If another airport has cheaper airline tickets, why cant I be based there? Whats the problem? If it will save the company money, then why the resistance? Bottom line, we need more bases at Flex. Sincerely, Frustrated at Flex
 
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jonjuan

Honey Ryder
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Feb 26, 2004
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"Why no bases at Flex?"

Because you haven't negotiated for them. Sorry to be glib.
 

brokeflyer

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Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Posts
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1501
Dear FLIFO, Earlier this year, we got a pay raise which was cool, but there were no QOL improvements that everybody was asking for. We heard this big speech about how QOL change was going to come, and all these committees they were forming and blah blah blah. Well not a whole hell of a lot has happened. We got a strange end of rest rule, a revamped lunch menu, and new uniforms. Where are the new bases we were told they were evaluating? What the heck is the holdup? Every other frac out there has at least 20 bases, and we have 5. The pilot group has offered lots of suggestions on how to help ease the cost (if there is any) to the company, yet management just says no no no. Not even willing to work out some sort of compromise. And the CAB sounds like they have more or less given up. Compromise....lets come up with something to make it happen. Want me to pay for my hotel in training? fine, done, lets go. If another airport has cheaper airline tickets, why cant I be based there? Whats the problem? If it will save the company money, then why the resistance? Bottom line, we need more bases at Flex. Sincerely, Frustrated at Flex

sounds like a job for njasap.....
 

FastJP4

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Posts
1,371
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enough
Why would they? They have tons of resumes "on file", zero movement in seniority because there is little to no hiring in the industry - and most folks are in the hunkered down mode right now and not going to complain to the company. Couple that with a weak pilot group and voila - 5 bases, realitstically it's actually 4 bases. Nobody new goes to Ontario. I don't think you'll see anything happening in any of those area's. The pay raise brought on silence - yet it's unfortunate that Flex guys have to work 208 days as compared to 184 at NJ & CS in order to have similiar pay. Oh, and please don't ever suggest the pay for your hotel thing during training.
 

On Your Six

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Mar 8, 2004
Posts
4,509
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Maybe Fred GREED will make some changes to domiciles. If he wants to make Flex the "fractional of choice" among pilots, changes will need to be made. You can't tell me opening domiciles in ATL, ORD and LAX (reopening Cali) wouldn't improve scheduling flexibility given that you can get anywhere from those hubs...

Flex has a great fleet (love those CL300s), good pay and an ok schedule - the domicile issue remains. Perhaps Fred is keeping it for the next round of negotiations...
 

Propilot77

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Mar 21, 2006
Posts
167
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None
you all had a chance to fix this with a union but everyone got bought by a $15000 pay raise and crawled back into their hole! Deal with it now because as long as DG is there this will never happen. Also CAB comments like "we don't have a problem filling the 4 bases we have so there will be no more attempt at any more bases." These are the people that are on our CAB who have a different agenda than what's best for our pilot group!
 

FastJP4

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Dec 16, 2007
Posts
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enough
Just an observation..............with two former 121 guys (FG,DG) running Flex, I seriously doubt pilot QOL is of any concern.
 

Nolife

Tired Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Posts
547
Total Time
4000+
you all had a chance to fix this with a union but everyone got bought by a $15000 pay raise and crawled back into their hole!

Good point. Shoulda kept up with the union drive even after the raise... alas now we must sleep in the feculent bed of bases we accepted.

Other than that I love my job and I'm looking forward to getting a new tie!
:beer:
 

Club ORD FO

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Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Posts
608
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12000
that we "accepted?" So we should never ask for any changes of any kind since we accepted them by taking the job? Tell that to the guys who cant sell their houses and are stuck commuting, or the guy who's dad died and he wants to move closer to his mom. Or the guy who's wife is a teacher and wants to transfer to another city. Life changes, and so should the bases. In my humble opinion of course.

But anyway, if other airports are cheaper, why not do it? I'm still wondering what the other reasons are.
 

BAT31

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Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Posts
36
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>3500
Sorry guys, but if you have no way to negotiate, then you can not negotiate. Its just a basic fact. The CAB can try, and I think they do their best, but with no leverage, there will be no change. And the pilot group has no leverage.

Now, do you unionize and leverage yourself out of a job? No. That has been disastrous in the past. You have to be realistic and work together. And yes, you all got bought with a pay raise and 0 QOL improvements.

Will things change? Maybe. But when a senior Captain argues that the Lear 85 should be on the same payscale as the smaller Lears "because its a Lear and you young guys need to work your way up just like I did ..." well, you can't argue with that dumb logic. (This is the same guy, by the way, who could not get hired at any major in the last 12 years ......)

Flexjet is a good job that could be a great job with a few QOL improvements. The CP is an outstanding individual but he can't do everything for us. Some we'll have to do for ourselves.

You have to believe in your self worth to make things better. Hope we have good luck.
 

Propilot77

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Mar 21, 2006
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167
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I agree with you club ORD however people like DG don't care about those situations! If flexjet management wanted to better our QOL these issues would have been addressed a long time ago! All of our bases are in the top 10 most expensive places to live! I am very much for more bases so that we all can get ahead in life but this won't change.
 
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BAT31

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Dec 18, 2004
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Now, do you unionize and leverage yourself out of a job? No. That has been disastrous in the past. You have to be realistic and work together. And yes, you all got bought with a pay raise and 0 QOL improvements.




I should have stated that unionizing, of some fashion, is still the answer, just don't negotiate your company away ......
 

Nolife

Tired Member
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Jan 23, 2003
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547
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that we "accepted?" So we should never ask for any changes of any kind since we accepted them by taking the job?

Bro... I'm with you on the basing issue. I want to move home. What I meant by "accepted" was we allowed the union drive to die once we got the raise and thereby lost any chance of bargining for more bases.

How long has the basing argument been going on at Flex? Even before DG. I think it will be a looong time before Flex management budges on this one without any pressure.
 

Club ORD FO

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oh ok gotcha. sorry if i was snippy.

Whoever flies FR next, ask nicely, bribe him with a 20 spot, offer to wash his car and see if that helps.

or maybe say "hey I have an idea that will save us tons of money. Open up some bases with cheaper airline service." seems soooooo simple.
 
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imacdog

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The only thing that will work is forming a union or threatening to form a union. You guys think you got your raises out of the kindness of management's hearts?
 

Flex-ible

JAFO
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Jan 12, 2008
Posts
264
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40+
Voting in a union sure did alot for FLOPS....two years, no contract, crappy morale, shrinking market share, no new planes....oh, and no pay raises.

Are there things I would like to see different at Flex? Sure. Meal choices. Home earlier last day. More credit for seniority in PBS. Give trip info to F/O's at the same time as CA's. Bases for those who want them.

But I am a realist. Right now management of all aviation companies have the option to give their pilots absolutely nothing, because there is no place to go. When the market improves, pilots begin retiring again, airlines add jobs instead of cutting, and we sell more shares - THEN there might be an opportunity to get something from management. Right now I am THRILLED to have one of the best jobs in aviation, warts and all.


My blood pressure "medication":
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]"God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference. "[/FONT]
 

skyismyoffice

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Jun 27, 2007
Posts
310
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14 yrs
Voting in a union sure did alot for FLOPS....two years, no contract, crappy morale, shrinking market share, no new planes....oh, and no pay raises.[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] "[/FONT]

Hold on there...We haven't had to answer our phones until duty on time for about 2.5 years now. We had about 12 domiciles for new hires - now we have 80 or so.

Our shrinking market share and lack of new equipment is due to the moronic CEO we had for almost 3 years. We stuck it out and him and his pet monkey are out the door. Our contract negotiations have progressed SIGNIFICANTLY in the past 2 months and we are on par to have a contract our pilot force can be proud of. I'm not just talking more money but strong Scope language and other things that will keep our jobs safe. As far as the crappy morale - there may be some, but I think most see bright skies ahead.
 

imacdog

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Mar 12, 2005
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If you are unwilling to take control of your future then you will have to accept what management gives you. No more bitching please.
 
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