Why isn't there a union for the Regionals??

[DoinTime]

The fact that they haven't updated the majority of the ATC system since the 60's and are still using state of the art vacuum tube equipment has nothing at all to do with it...or the fact that the FAA doesn't have the budget to allow sufficient staffing so we can utilize PRM approaches(haven't been using them in SFO for a long time, even when conditions are ideal...we just get longer flow delays)...or the fact that they(the FAA)haven't even bothered trying to keep up with growth by adding additional runways or airports when the need has been obvious for many years...

All the delays can simply be attributed to the rj's...

NOT!!!!

Certainly the national airspace system is woefully out of date. That being said the FAA has never announced that there is a plan to fix the problem. We are currently dealing with a system that has finite capacity and airlines have exceeded that capacity.

The argument can always be made that technological improvements or staffing increases could alleviate the problem but who is going to pay for it? The airlines aren't going to pay and I'm certainly not willing to increase my taxes so airlines can reap the benefits.

If airlines want free reign over their scheduled capacity they need to step up to the plate and pay to fix the system. Until then the problems with chronic delays are their fault.

 

[Gandalf]

Hello? This is Earth Calling!

Uhm, yeah...the "massive increase in the numbers of delayed aircraft and the absolutly ridiculous delay times across the nation are due to the RJ's. Plain and simple."



The fact that they haven't updated the majority of the ATC system since the 60's and are still using state of the art vacuum tube equipment has nothing at all to do with it...or the fact that the FAA doesn't have the budget to allow sufficient staffing so we can utilize PRM approaches(haven't been using them in SFO for a long time, even when conditions are ideal...we just get longer flow delays)...or the fact that they(the FAA)haven't even bothered trying to keep up with growth by adding additional runways or airports when the need has been obvious for many years...

All the delays can simply be attributed to the rj's...



NOT!!!!

So, yes there are other things contributing to the delays. But, what are you saying....That the rjs aren't MOST of the problem???? WTF???

Where do you fly? Have you even flown anywhere East of the Mississippi? WTF????

Rjs are everywhere....Simple economics.....A major can contract out its flying to a regional, serve the same routes out of the same MAJOR airports (ORD, ATL, LGA, EWR, IAD, etc.....), fly the rjs on 3:30-4:30 hour flights (in an rj - WTF!?) and have lower costs. Fuel and Labor. A regional airline crew costs a lot cheaper than a mainline crew.

Meanwhile, in order to get the number of seats between 2 city pairs from the MAJOR airports in the US., the major has to/or can - run more rj flights.

That means THERE ARE MORE AIRCRAFT FLYING BETWEEN ORD AND X, ATL AND X, LGA AND X, ETC. ETC. ETC.

MORE AIRCRAFT (RJS) THAT THE ATC SYSTEM CAN'T HANDLE.

Yes, the ATC system needs overhaul, however the ones contributing to the problem (THE AIRLINES) are not willing to fix the problem ($$$$$). BECAUSE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO THE SHAREHOLDERS. AND BY RUNNING MULTIPLE RJS(EVEN WITH DELAYS) IT IS CHEAPER THAN FLYING MAINLINE FLIGHTS.

So, call your congressman and lobby to get more $$ for the FAA, so that it can be overhauled. Meanwhile airlines will continue to add rj capacity to the skies.

By adding more rj capacity, we drive the OVERALL salary range of the industry DOWN.

So, although fixing the ATC is a valid and important concern, the unchecked proliferation of rjs in the US airspace system is the more important problem in todays industry. Whether you fix ATC or not, the delays will NOT go away with an increasing number of a/c (rjs) in the skies.

The regional airline has changed, as a direct result of the advent of the technology of the rj. The rj has allowed the majors to serve major markets at a lower cost to THEM. Although, that is a great thing in some respects.....because of the way the airline industry structures the pay for the pilots, the rj and regional flying should have limits placed on them. Otherwise we do a disservice to ALL.

 

[Avpilot]

I seem to remember expressjet doing Toronto to Houston?..Isnt that over 4 hrs??? Yikes!!!...Pass the gin & tonic for that ride!!! Better yet just get the tow bar and smash my skull in!....

You are correct...but that's not even the longest we do. Up until CAL made the blunder of giving us so many XRs, we did IAH-BOI, IAH-PSP, IAH-BFL, EWR-OKC, etc. I think we still do some of those. IAH-BOI-IAH was the best day trip...7:53 block.

Currently we still do some LAX-Mexico (usually QRO or BJX)-IAH redeyes. Those are some long flights. I think the Delta Connection LAX-Zijuatinejo is one of the longer ones now too.

We're doing the same types of routes the DC-9 guys used to do....thank God we're not bringing home $150/hr like they were....man that would suck.

Tim

 

[Nevets]

Maybe some genius has already thought of this, but why isn't there a Union that represents the regionals?? 110 seats or less, a union that looks out for the little guys??

You could call it RAPA, Regional Airlines Pilots Association. I'm sure someone has already thought of this, so why has it not worked??

just curious??

There is a union for regionals...its called ALPA.

By the way, the problem with congestion due to lack of runway capacity. It is not the job of airlines to increase runway capacity. This is the job of the federal governemnt. Just like automobile congestion between cities required the government to build highways, increased air traffice requires the government to increase runway capacity. You don't see anyone telling the commuters and truckers not to travel in highways in places like Los Angeles, so you shouldnt see anyone telling anybody when where they should fly.

 

[DoinTime]

You don't see anyone telling the commuters and truckers not to travel in highways in places like Los Angeles, so you shouldnt see anyone telling anybody when where they should fly.

Are you saying that delays are not common on I40 westbound heading out of LA during rush hour?

The difference between airspace and the freeways is that Congress is put on high alert when some a-hole puts 2+ hours of footage on YouTube while they are trapped in the back of an RJ. Seemingly, nobody cares if I'm trapped in LA traffic for 3 hours just trying to get heck out of that wacked city.

 

[Nevets]

Are you saying that delays are not common on I40 westbound heading out of LA during rush hour?

The difference between airspace and the freeways is that Congress is put on high alert when some a-hole puts 2+ hours of footage on YouTube while they are trapped in the back of an RJ. Seemingly, nobody cares if I'm trapped in LA traffic for 3 hours just trying to get heck out of that wacked city.

I probably did a poor job of making my point. But yes, there are delays on highways in all major cities in this country. My point being that in the case of highways, you don't hear anyone saying that commuters and truckers should stop driving in certain cities or drive at different hours. The interstate highways are the result of the government meeting the demands of commerce (not saying that there is no highway congestion, just saying that there was a time before interstate highways and even railroads). They need to do the same with runway capacity. Government should facilitate commerce not the other way around!

 

[lookin4better]

Gandalf,

Great post. Couldn't have said it better.

C27

I second that! Gandlalf and PCL are dead on.....Too many RJ!

Dont get all puffy chested over this....it is TRUE and its a FACT...its time to shrink the regionals back down to what they were initally made for

 

[Nevets]

I second that! Gandlalf and PCL are dead on.....Too many RJ!

Dont get all puffy chested over this....it is TRUE and its a FACT...its time to shrink the regionals back down to what they were initally made for

You mean not enough runway capacity. Its the government's responsibility to facilitate commerce. Not the other way around. That is why no one says there are too many trucks on the road.

 

[PCL_128]

You mean not enough runway capacity. Its the government's responsibility to facilitate commerce. Not the other way around. That is why no one says there are too many trucks on the road.

There are plenty of runways and gates for the right size of airplanes. Nobody says that there are too many trucks on the road because you don't see trucking companies outsourcing their business to 100 guys with pickup trucks instead of two guys with 18-wheelers. That's the equivalent of what the airlines have done. There is absolutely no excuse for running RJs out of places like LGA and DCA to hub airports.

 

[Nevets]

There are plenty of runways and gates for the right size of airplanes. Nobody says that there are too many trucks on the road because you don't see trucking companies outsourcing their business to 100 guys with pickup trucks instead of two guys with 18-wheelers. That's the equivalent of what the airlines have done. There is absolutely no excuse for running RJs out of places like LGA and DCA to hub airports.

All Im saying is that its not the government's business to tell private sector companies where and what they can and cant fly at certain hours of the day. Again, if the market demands it, the government should facilitate that commerce, NOT the other way around.

Plain and simple, there is not enough runway capacity.