Why is helicopter time ingored?

[pilotyip]

Stupid Managment

Someone has to figure out why uninformed management knuckleheads don't view a multi-crew Captain time in an advanced IFR helo like the H-60, H-46, H-53 or H-47 as not real flight time. However, PIC in a VFR only C-150 in the traffic pattern is the breakfast of champions for an airline career by those who set hard fixed wing limits and ignore helo time in total time. Why are most management and insurance company’s sooooo out of touch with reality? Ops I am sorry I was management bashing again.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Someone has to figure out why uninformed management knuckleheads don't view a multi-crew Captain time in an advanced IFR helo like the H-60, H-46, H-53 or H-47 as not real flight time. However, PIC in a VFR only C-150 in the traffic pattern is the breakfast of champions for an airline career by those who set hard fixed wing limits and ignore helo time in total time. Why are most management and insurance company’s sooooo out of touch with reality? Ops I am sorry I was management bashing again.

I agree that it should absolutely be counted, but as I stated in an earlier post the pilot should also have experience in FW aircraft. Make some kind of rule that helo time is only to be counted provided that the applicant have at least an ATP in a FW aircraft. Something along those lines.

Until a standard like that is in place management will always be a little hesitant about counting helo time. One reason being is that the most critical phase of flight is during takeoff and landing. Any monkey can fly straight and level, but if its the middle of summer and you're in your heavy 777 traveling at 140 knots past V1 and you sh!t an engine you have about 300 people counting on your V1 cut. That is something you will never get to practice as a helo guy (or as a C-172 guy for that matter). Now granted, taking off/landing/hovering/autorotation in a helo can be just as challenging, but the skills and practice needed to perfect those maneuvers are not needed in the airlines.

 

[USARET]

I agree that it should absolutely be counted, but as I stated in an earlier post the pilot should also have experience in FW aircraft. Make some kind of rule that helo time is only to be counted provided that the applicant have at least an ATP in a FW aircraft. Something along those lines.

Until a standard like that is in place management will always be a little hesitant about counting helo time. One reason being is that the most critical phase of flight is during takeoff and landing. Any monkey can fly straight and level, but if its the middle of summer and you're in your heavy 777 traveling at 140 knots past V1 and you sh!t an engine you have about 300 people counting on your V1 cut. That is something you will never get to practice as a helo guy (or as a C-172 guy for that matter). Now granted, taking off/landing/hovering/autorotation in a helo can be just as challenging, but the skills and practice needed to perfect those maneuvers are not needed in the airlines.

I'll take a V1 cut anytime over losing an engine or tailrotor at night, low level, wearing NVG's, in bad guy land.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I'll take a V1 cut anytime over losing an engine or tailrotor at night, low level, wearing NVG's, in bad guy land.

me too. Not the point I was trying to make. I have never stated the flying FW is harder than RW. If fact I think I have made in clear in my posts that I think the opposite. However, airlines are more concerned with your V1 cut than your abilities to put her down after you lost the tail rotor. If you have very little multi-engine FW time you have not proven your proficiency in this skill. I agree that V1 cuts are not that hard to master, but you need to prove you can do it and do it well.

 

[Be 23]

Interesting thread. I'm a little to old and ummotivated to go for the majors, but if I had an attitude change . . . With my helo time, 250 hours of PIC in my Sundowner, and a week at All ATP's I've got the rating.

So what am I going to learn about flying jets at Ari Ben in a Duchess (or some other time builder) that I don't already know?

Those of you who have done it, please let me know. I suspect that once you know the basic pilot stuff, you have to train in jets to learn jets.

Fly safe . . .

 

[Cobra]

me too. Not the point I was trying to make. I have never stated the flying FW is harder than RW. If fact I think I have made in clear in my posts that I think the opposite. However, airlines are more concerned with your V1 cut than your abilities to put her down after you lost the tail rotor. If you have very little multi-engine FW time you have not proven your proficiency in this skill. I agree that V1 cuts are not that hard to master, but you need to prove you can do it and do it well.

When's the last time someone did a V1 cut in a Cessna 152? As mentioned before, decent helo time isn't going to replace good Part 121 turbojet time. I'll reiterate what's already been said here on this thread: It's ludicrous to count C152 traffic time as total time and not helo time-especially turbine military helo time.

G

 

[g-code]

Helicopters are like homosexuals: unnatural.

 

[Cobra]

Helicopters are like homosexuals: unnatural.

Tell me about it. A million pieces and parts always trying to make a departure from one another.

 

[Caveman]

I'll reiterate what's already been said here on this thread: It's ludicrous to count C152 traffic time as total time and not helo time-especially turbine military helo time.

G

Uhhh...you're applying for a FW job. Why shouldn't all FW time count? Why should any RW time count?

Let's say you're applying for a job as dentist and there is another guy trying to get the job. Problem is the other guy is a dentist and you are a heart surgeon. Is heart surgery more difficult than being a dentist. Yep. Are there similar skills involved. Yep. Is the heart surgeon better qualified to be a dentist than a dentist even though they both practice medicine and heart surgery is more difficult. Nope.

If you have two dentists with equal dental qualifications and experience but one of them also happens to be a heart surgeon, then the cardiovascular experience is relevant. But a less qualified dentist that happens to be a heart surgeon is still a less qualified dentist.

A lame analogy, but it makes my point.

Just to make sure we're clear on where I'm at with this, turbine helo time is valuable airmanship and should be counted once all the basic fixed wing time is met. IMO a helo guy that doesn't meet mins unless he counts his helo time is not as qualified as a pure FW guy that does. Just like a FW guy applying for RW job isn't either if he has to rely on his FW to meet the mins for the job at hand. If a company wants to accept inbred time from either candidate, that's their business. I'm not saying to not accept it, but RW time isn't FW and vice versa regardless of degree of difficulty.

FWIW, I have a little (and I mean very,very little) time in RW. It's apples and oranges and RW initially seems to be significantly more challenging.

 

[DAL737FO]

The funny thing is that a helicopter, once through effective translational lift (ETL is about 16-24 knots), flies just like an airplane. Where a helicopter gets it's reputation is from people learning to hover. If you took a UH-60 did a running takeoff, flew at a normal cruise speed and did a run on landing you would have very little difference between it and a cessna. Oh yeah except the UH-60 is faster.

Delta didn't count helo time during it's big hiring binge in the late 90's and early 00's. A good many of us former helo guys spent many hours talking to Plato Rhyne trying to convince him that helo time should count. Unfortunately the hiring cycle stopped before he actually would count helo time.