Why is helicopter time ingored?

[ExAF]

Joking

Just kidding here....
Because helicopters don't fly...They beat the air into submission.:laugh:

 

[fatboyplt]

I have so far managed to not say anything negative about anyones reponses on this forum, but now I must take exception to Instructordudes incredibly ignorant if not immature post. If you do not have the experience as you indicate than perhaps a nice STF up would be in order.
Both realms of flying are different. I can say it is more plausible for a helo DUDE to live longer flying a FW with no experience than it is for FW aviator jumping in and flying a RW.
That being said someone earlier mentioned Army and Marines do not make it to VP slots. There is probably alot of truth to that statement. Besides in generations past helos just were not cool with the fast movers. Still see it obviously today. Additionally the FW guys and Gals missed out on all that quality tent time that the Army and Corp loves...

Birdman
BTV

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

It takes time to accomplish but f/w flying is alot more representative of the experience the majors want.

For me as a helo bubba it took 5 years, 1 month to go through 2 commuters and two non-sched companies to make it to a major.

TBH, going 15 miles from MCAS Tustin to the ranges at Pendleton VFR talking to no one other than range control in the restricted areas is really not anthing like flying in an airline environment.

But, it should count towards total time.

 

[pilotyip]

We hire a lot of helo guys, they all do well. We count the multi helo time towards MEL, and all hell time towards totals. We have never had a training failure with a former active military helo driver, can not say the same for pure civilian pilots. They a have a lot going for them, pre screened for a highly competitvie training prograam, trained to standard procedures, and a disipline that is uniform. I know a lot of the regional count helo time also because I have lost helo pilots out of the pool to places like ASA and Colgan.

 

[I_Love_Lamp]

I have so far managed to not say anything negative about anyones reponses on this forum, but now I must take exception to Instructordudes incredibly ignorant if not immature post. If you do not have the experience as you indicate than perhaps a nice STF up would be in order.

Methinks he was being facetious. Lighten up, Francis.

 

[Scrapdog]

I have so far managed to not say anything negative about anyones reponses on this forum, but now I must take exception to Instructordudes incredibly ignorant if not immature post. If you do not have the experience as you indicate than perhaps a nice STF up would be in order.
Both realms of flying are different. I can say it is more plausible for a helo DUDE to live longer flying a FW with no experience than it is for FW aviator jumping in and flying a RW.
That being said someone earlier mentioned Army and Marines do not make it to VP slots. There is probably alot of truth to that statement. Besides in generations past helos just were not cool with the fast movers. Still see it obviously today. Additionally the FW guys and Gals missed out on all that quality tent time that the Army and Corp loves...

Birdman
BTV

Instructordude is a complete clown - do not even try to reason with him. He's a standard twenty something embry ridiculous or all ATP product with a few hundred hours and his CFI and thinks he actually has some air sense. The guy has no clue and will never make it past Air Wisconsin or Chataqua because he's already managed to get himself blackballed on here with every major carrier out there.

 

[Bosley]

Instructordude is a complete clown - do not even try to reason with him. He's a standard twenty something embry ridiculous or all ATP product with a few hundred hours and his CFI and thinks he actually has some air sense.

Actually, I think, no I'm pretty sure, instructordude is uppercrust!

 

[instructordude]

Instructordude is a complete clown - do not even try to reason with him. He's a standard twenty something embry ridiculous or all ATP product with a few hundred hours and his CFI and thinks he actually has some air sense. The guy has no clue and will never make it past Air Wisconsin or Chataqua because he's already managed to get himself blackballed on here with every major carrier out there.

Sorry Crapdog but I got some high connections at CAL and FedEX. I can't meet the mins at Fedex for awhile so I'll settle for CAL.

As far as reasoning with folks, it is ok to disagree. You're not at the Academy any more, so here is a little advice: It takes all types.

 

[instructordude]

Actually, I think, no I'm pretty sure, instructordude is uppercrust!

Not at 18 dollars an hour, I'm more like bottomcrust.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Spaz, yeah obviously FW time is required, but to count C-152 time in a day VFR traffic pattern and not count multi crew, multi-ship time in a highly complex airframe (UH-60,AH-64, CH-47, CH-53, CH-46 etc) is lunacy.

Again, RW time is deffinately NOT a substitute but is much more demanding than any kind of GA piston single. You are flying in a crew environment between 5-200 AGL for hours at a time at night, in formation etc etc bla-bla.

and it's also a he!! of a lot more fun... starch wing flying is soooo boring

Actually, C-152 time doesn't count for much either.

 

[USARET]

Both have their complexities, however my transition to fixed wing flying was very easy. I used to teach a course in my Army days that transitioned Air Force and Euro Nato allied fixed wing drivers to helicopters. The learning curve for those guys was much steeper. Most of it had to do with the manual dexterity required to fly a helo added on to the other tasks that require situational awareness.

 

[Oh-ryan]

The main reason. Politics.

Most Army/Marine guys never make it to the VP/DO level in airlines. Air Force and Navy are well represented. Hence, you can get an airline job with 1500 hours of fighter time at Southwest.

I once asked Southwest recruitment why they didn't count helo time. The rep blew off the question and acted like I should know why.

Helicopter flying is much more demanding than sitting at FL350 sipping coffee. I've done both.

Just to piggyback on to this thought for a bit... not sure how it is in the Air Force, but in the navy, generally the guys/gals with the lowest scores during flight school are "forced" into the helo pipeline. I'd say most (not all) navy helo drivers are not there by choice, but they still love to fly and are great pilots. So that being said, if you do have a company that has a large portion of it's senior pilots with military backgrounds this mentality may influence their decisions on whether or not to include helo time in their pilot hiring minimums.

I do agree that helo flying should be counted provided there is sufficient FW time in the pilot's background. They are extremely complex machines that require the manipulation of both arms and both legs at all times to keep them in the air. With FW aircraft, if you let go of the controls she'll hold what she's got for a while... if you do the same in a helo... not so much.

 

[tailhookah]

Fat chicks, mopeds and helo's.... all fun to ride but don't get caught by your friends doing it.... you'll get ridiculed!!!!!

Tail

 

[Irishav8r]

I DO understand they are slightly different, but why not count the time?? For example some companies dont count it at all? SWA JB.....not sure about others.....

I guess I dont get it.....maybe an R22 is not, but a turbine helicopter is just as complex as a King Air, or Beech 1900.....many others.....just a curious question.

I know some places DO count it.....but again....just curious

Its because very few people who do interviews have ever been pulled out of a jungle after ejecting. Or relied on close air support, or one of the guys repelling out of the back. Your Rodney Dangerfield and as long as you don't fly the FW like the RW, you should be able to count it.

:uzi:

 

[Whine Lover]

Helo time is not counted because:

- They fly against all known Laws of Physics and God's Will.

- They are the Work of the Devil.

- They look funny.


I know...I have in excess of 1.5 hours in an R22 and a Bell.

I have never been the same since.

Both experiences were similar to Acid Trips with just a hint of Peyote added for good measure.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

But seriously, I enjoyed flying them contraptions...don't know why they don't count the time at some places.

Maybe it's like Major Corporations not sponsoring a truck driver to drive their Nascar entry?

Ya know...."one of these things is not like the other" (even though it sort of is.)

Who knows why these messed up Airlines do ANYTHING they do?

It's like when my kid used to ask me: "Dad, why does a Duck say "quack?"

"Well Son, one reason is because God said so and the other is because if he didn't say "quack" he wouldn't be a Duck now would he?"

In other words....That's just the way it IS.



YKW

 

[No_Desk_Jobs]

I've hear so many people complaining (personal experiences) about why their Helo time doesn't count, or why this mil course, which teaches the exact same things, can't be counted for a certian FAA rating, or why their whirly bird time should count towards getting hired at ______ Airlines. I wish mine did too. Until that time we're stuck playing the game by the rules of the person or corporation (or insurance company) that owns the airplanes.
Stick it to the Man When You Can

 

[Bosley]

Not at 18 dollars an hour, I'm more like bottomcrust.

Welcome back upper. Looks like your avatars are right on par!

 

[AC560]

I often wonder why helicopter operators don't count fixed wing time.

 

[instructordude]

Welcome back upper. Looks like your avatars are right on par!

Thanks. I don't know why though? Why are you calling me upper?

I like my avatar. I had that picture taken in England.

 

[Cobra]

Funny you should ask... two years ago I was contemplating a move out of the airlines and into a local Air Ambulance outfit for family reasons. The fellow(chief pilot type) who I showed my resume to commented that indeed the times looked good(5000+) and all but, you guessed it, there was the pesky matter of my only having 2000 hours of rotary wing time.

So yes, it does cut both ways and perhaps rightly so.

That said, I have to agree that once certain levels of experience in class (RW vs. FW) have been met, to pretend that the years spent flying the other might as well have been spent in front of the computer flying microsoft flight simulator is downright ignorant.

I worked for Air Logistics. They didn't have a problem with my fixed wing experience. Neither one of the regionals I worked for had problems with my sling wing time. Majors have been a different story (CAL seems to be the most friendly of all-at least for military rotary types).

I flight instructed to build my initial starch wing time. Bouncing around in cessna 152's and 172's doesn't even compare with the rotary wing experiences I have encountered. That is: From a technical standpoint, the amount of SA that is required, and the high degree of CRM and crew coordination that is required. Hand flying an ILS in a light airplane is a piece of cake compared with flying an ILS in a rotary wing aircraft.

For some reason outfits like SWA or AA seems to think that doing multiple traffic patterns in a Cessna 152 is better time than flying night time combat missions, looking through a 1.5"x1" display positioned over a single eyeball and having that as your sole source to fly the aircraft with, and in the mean time trying to not fly into your wingman or the ground while trying to shoot the bad guy and not the good guy. Oh, and if those aren't enough compound complications, did I mention this thing was a helicopter too?

OH, and for you guys who didn't get the jist of the thread; nobody here is saying that helo time should count the same as Part 121 turbojet time. But come' on, Cessna 152 time being counted as total time and not decent helo time? Maybe I could understand this if a guy was giving $20 dollar helo rides in a Bell 47 at the yearly county carnival and that is what the bulk of his helo time consisted of.

This pervasive mindset is pretty dam stupid if you ask me.