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Why do so many WN pilots care?

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HalinTexas

HalinTexas

昇る太陽の土&#
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Posts
1,536
What did SWA lose by this? F9 was 1/10th your size, yet the posts are dominated by WN pilots.

If SWA is so great they'll pick up what they really want in Ch 7 liquidation, after they've driven them out of business.
 
I'm not really sure what you are asking. What did we lose? nothing that I can see. it is possible that we've missed out on an opportunity to capture market share in DEN so I guess we'll have to do it the old fashioned way.

if you are really asking why were we so engaged on this? the stakes were high. growing 10% and getting no closer to upgrade really means you are 3 or 4 more years from upgrade. any kind of relative seniority integration would have diminished FO career values rather than enhanced them.

F9 guys seem happy with the way it turned out and I think that many SWA guys are too, so it is all good. We made an offer, they made a counter and we couldn't come to agreement. it is what it is.
 
From another WN'er.
I really don't care. When I saw the news today...the only thing I really felt was relief. My airline career has been admittedly short, but what I have learned is that, for the most part, M&A should be avoided. My only regret is for the F9 guys (and if they don't want my sympathies..so be it). I truly hope things work out better for them than the Midwest guys. I think our company will soldier on. Well thought out contingencies are in place and will be acted up accordingly. Here's hoping that everyone of our careers will survive these turbulent times.
Respectfully.
 
Growth can be costly

firstthird said:
it is possible that we've missed out on an opportunity to capture market share in DEN so I guess we'll have to do it the old fashioned way.
Click to expand...

Or reconsider whether "capturing market share" is worth the price. Many marketing departments have caused great financial damage to their carriers by worshiping this idol.
 
I agree with you completely. market share is the chimera of failing airlines. making money is what you want. I was searching for something good and that is was all I could come up with, which shows you why I wasn't that psyched about the whole deal. but I'm just a pilot so I'm sure the money guys have it all figures out. or something.
 
"Or reconsider whether "capturing market share" is worth the price. Many marketing departments have caused great financial damage to their carriers by worshiping this idol. "

That's whats interesting. 170 million goes a long way in the marketing department, especially in one local market. At least on the outside that always appeared to be the SWA way. After watching them buy the competition at MDW and now try the same in Denver, it almost appears as though they've hit a wall in terms of organic growth.
 
Its ridiculous the cheap shots that individuals are taking. F9 chose their fate, the process worked, Gary kept his word and Republic won the bid. Time to move on, its absolutely ugly how some are taking advantage of the situation to throw mud. It also makes the respective parties look desperate for market share. Be professional, shut your mouth and move on.
 
It's highly probable the Southwest bid wouldn't have been chosen anyway so this is all moot.

Bedford had this all laid out and I'm sure all the deciding players were already on board (not just FAPA, maybe even board members that got to pick the bid).

They had already started making decisions such as code-shares etc like it was a done deal anyway.
 
Why does Hailintexas care about any of this? He is a SWA hater, anyway!
 
Why do so many WN pilots care?

At the end of the day I think many of us at WN were sad that the F9/SWA deal failed. As a WN FO, I looked forward to having the F9 group join us. It was generally thought that the cultures among our two companies were similar and the F9 people were overall a great group who flight hard to keep their airline alive and take great pride in their product, again a trait that today is atypical in the industry and one which would have meshed well between our two companies.

I guess there was no way mathamatically to have made everyone happy and the outcome of our two companies working together (which would have been a tremendous advantage for both our companies in DEN) will remain an unknown. For me this is kind of sad...
 
Hey Kharma,

SWA bought gates that were for sale in exchange for codeshare. We didn't run your airline and we didn't sell your gates. We didn't shut you down. We didn't put you out of business. We didn't piss off 1,000's of passengers when you locked the doors and stranded them at the outstations.

I'm sorry that you see it otherwise.

Gup
 
GuppyWN said:
Hey Kharma,

SWA bought gates that were for sale in exchange for codeshare. We didn't run your airline and we didn't sell your gates. We didn't shut you down. We didn't put you out of business. We didn't piss off 1,000's of passengers when you locked the doors and stranded them at the outstations.

I'm sorry that you see it otherwise.

Gup
Click to expand...

Sorry, I work for AirTran.
 
I think it's more shock than anything else. The swa pilots thought this was a good deal. It appeared the f9 pilots could see the potential too. It's not arrogance.
 
Heyas,

IMHO, the junior SWA guys are pissed because they saw 40 airplanes worth of quick upgrades go "poof" after the F9 guys gave the finger to being stapled.

Now SWA faces the prospect of a ULCC in a market they desperately wanted to dominate, but to date, have failed to. That means funneling resources and plain, hard cash to combat an already annoying competitor, instead of ready made market share.

So, who's keeping score?

Flying into congested hubs
Quarterly losses
High labor costs
Upsidedown Futures
Rejected pilot agreements
Failed merger attempts

Were the above items not posted in a SWA thread, how many would say those things are associated with "legacy carriers"? Welcome to the party, boys...here's your sign.

Nu
 
NuGuy said:
Heyas,

IMHO, the junior SWA guys are pissed because they saw 40 airplanes worth of quick upgrades go "poof" after the F9 guys gave the finger to being stapled.

Now SWA faces the prospect of a ULCC in a market they desperately wanted to dominate, but to date, have failed to. That means funneling resources and plain, hard cash to combat an already annoying competitor, instead of ready made market share.

So, who's keeping score?

Flying into congested hubs
Quarterly losses
High labor costs
Upsidedown Futures
Rejected pilot agreements
Failed merger attempts

Were the above items not posted in a SWA thread, how many would say those things are associated with "legacy carriers"? Welcome to the party, boys...here's your sign.

Nu
Click to expand...

Always makes me laugh when you idiots talk about high labor costs. Actually, no it doesn't. Swa doesn't have "high" labor costs, they just maintained their labor costs while everyone else jumped off a cliff. Did you ever think high pay for professional pilots is a good thing?? Naaaa
 
NuGuy said:
Heyas,

IMHO, the junior SWA guys are pissed because they saw 40 airplanes worth of quick upgrades go "poof" after the F9 guys gave the finger to being stapled.

Now SWA faces the prospect of a ULCC in a market they desperately wanted to dominate, but to date, have failed to. That means funneling resources and plain, hard cash to combat an already annoying competitor, instead of ready made market share.

So, who's keeping score?

Flying into congested hubs
Quarterly losses
High labor costs
Upsidedown Futures
Rejected pilot agreements
Failed merger attempts

Were the above items not posted in a SWA thread, how many would say those things are associated with "legacy carriers"? Welcome to the party, boys...here's your sign.

Nu
Click to expand...


Hi labor costs? WN made 52M last quarter and yearly profits for 30+ years. F9 touts recent operating profit which was accomplished off the backs of its employees. Great way to make money.
 
Did Judy Tarver start doing the hiring at SWA in 2000?

That would explain a lot...

TC
 
Bally said:
Hi labor costs? WN made 52M last quarter and yearly profits for 30+ years. F9 touts recent operating profit which was accomplished off the backs of its employees. Great way to make money.
Click to expand...

More accurately stated would be WN is no longer the low-cost provider. I would submit that WN may soon be on the receiving end of the stick they have wielded for many years.
 
NuGuy said:
Heyas,

IMHO, the junior SWA guys are pissed because they saw 40 airplanes worth of quick upgrades go "poof" after the F9 guys gave the finger to being stapled.
Click to expand...



I haven't talked to one FO (or Capt for that matter) who is not relieved about the outcome. IMHO, we dodged a bullet.

In this industry, seniority is life. We didn't want to give up ours and the F9 guys didn't want to give up theirs.

In the end, the F9 guys got what they want, and we got what we want.....

Why the hate?
 
Yet somehow in Coloradoland, folks who are selling whats left of their failed business seem to think they can call the shots...

Best of luck, this will work out best for both in the end.
 

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