Why do ASA pilots want PBS?

[crj567]

Hey CRJ

Weren't you sure that ASA could not buy anybody?

Well- Considering that ASA is not an independent company, I would say it did not buy anything. Try going out and buying a share of ASA stock. How about trying to find out where the ASA board of directors meeting is held. Maybe you can come up with a 10K statement or an annual report which has ASA on it.

-If you still think that ASA really bought anything, I cannot help you.

 

[JettBoii]

PBS; ho hum. Same crappy overnights on the 200. You just decide when you want to stay there.

 

[maxcackel]

With the old bidding system that's about to be trashed we could bid conflicting trips to be dropped, if that dropped you below 75 hrs it was easy to pick up a nap or day line to bring you back. As a person on vacation you got priority on open time to do that over senior people not on vacation at the beginning of the month. So it was easy to get 18-20 days off and get paid 75hrs. My best month was 22 days. Now with pbs maybe the top 20% might get 15 days but most will get just a few over 7. I tried to tell people that minus the pay raise you get if you divided your days worked this year by the pay compared to the days worked next year by the pay with pbs(agian minus raise) you will get paid much less per day at work with pbs. Between the lost vacation days and other conflicting days it will cost you time at home for the same or less pay. But in a way the company has done this to me this year over last year with the poorly constructed trips and lines with less days off, I have worked many more days this year than last and by July 31st have made less than last year WITH my raise!

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Never wanted it...I voted NO! Wish many others had also, I still feel the number were rigged.

 

[ASA Captain]

Let's see. Set vacation low 70-75 hours required to meet the window. Check virtual credit to 4 X 7 = 28. 75-28=47. Need 47 to make line. Two 4-days at 20 hours is 40. Pick up one more day-line to ELP or an overnight to get the last seven hours. Working 9-10 days and paid 75. Not bad.

The reason you are working more now is because we have more flying now as compared to last year.

 

[maxcackel]

"We are going to get PBS anyway, might as well vote it in now". The dumbest statement made the entire time I've been at ASA. ONLY if we vote it in people. Just because the company want's it does not make it so. What if the company said HUGE PAY CUTS or else would you just fold in contract negotiations, NO. The union scarred the pilots into thinking they would have to agree to it in negotiations or never get a contract. Wrong but you will never know now.

 

[maxcackel]

Let's see. Set vacation low 70-75 hours required to meet the window. Check virtual credit to 4 X 7 = 28. 75-28=47. Need 47 to make line. Two 4-days at 20 hours is 40. Pick up one more day-line to ELP or an overnight to get the last seven hours. Working 9-10 days and paid 75. Not bad.

The reason you are working more now is because we have more flying now as compared to last year.

But I've made less than last year due to those months of every line at 75 avg and crap trip construction.

 

[crj567]

Let's see. Set vacation low 70-75 hours required to meet the window. Check virtual credit to 4 X 7 = 28. 75-28=47. Need 47 to make line. Two 4-days at 20 hours is 40. Pick up one more day-line to ELP or an overnight to get the last seven hours. Working 9-10 days and paid 75. Not bad.

The reason you are working more now is because we have more flying now as compared to last year.

Your math assumes trips blocked to reasonable time. If you are flying a couple of 14 hr 4 days or 11 hour three days, it takes a lot more work to get to 47 hours. Of course the road show certainly tip-toed around any possibly downside, so I can understand the confusion.

 

[maxcackel]

Your math assumes trips blocked to reasonable time. If you are flying a couple of 14 hr 4 days or 11 hour three days, it takes a lot more work to get to 47 hours. Of course the road show certainly tip-toed around any possibly downside, so I can understand the confusion.[/QUOTE
Exactly. And if pushed would say that PBS might park a trip right before or after you vacation but its still awesome because you get a several days then a trip in the middle then several more days off. PUKE, "well honey we could go on vacation then come home a couple days then go back!"

 

[ASA Captain]

I don't argue with your point on the trip construction. When we were "fat" and furloughed, the company spread the flying on certain categories to min guarantee max work. Union doesn't control that.

We have only been "short" for a couple months.

What was your block time last year up to Aug? What about this year? What was the difference in pay? I don't doubt what you say but some real number might help show the disparity.

What's important in this thread is people are in a panic about something that haven't even run a fake bid on yet. Relax a bit. Wait until after the first bid, talk to a rep, find out what u did wrong, fix it, bid again, and then come bitc$@!?$ about how you can't hold 3 days.

 

[ASA Captain]

3.75x4=15. 3.75x3=11.25. It's called math.

But to your point. Yes in low block hour months the pairings might be low block and spread thin. You might have to fly more. OMG!

Same situation currently. To build your line back to 75 now you would have to pick up more trips if they are all thin block.

 

[crj567]

3.75x4=15. 3.75x3=11.25. It's called math.

But to your point. Yes in low block hour months the pairings might be low block and spread thin. You might have to fly more. OMG!

Same situation currently. To build your line back to 75 now you would have to pick up more trips if they are all thin block.

I sure hope Expressjet has more pilots accustomed to reality. We are simply a mess these days.

 

[ASA Captain]

Also, if they are flying thin block hours the credit window will be low (otherwise they end up with tons of reserves at home all month) the credit required to get a line will be only 70 not 75 via vacation low. So you won't have to pick more than 42 hours.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

So you ASA boys that argue in favor of PBS, how much vacation do you get a year? My last week of vacation, I was off May 23 - June 19th with ONE WEEK of vacation, and with a few picked up BRO overnights from IAH (2 hours flying for 7.5 hours pay) I got near 90-hours pay both months... Can your PBS do that?

PBS is a concessionary bidding system, plain and simple.

 

[SLUF4]

y'all don't forget about our 1 percent pay raises because of PBS! oh, and our min day goes up from 3.75 to 3.86 I think it was

 

[zawillif]

"We are going to get PBS anyway, might as well vote it in now". The dumbest statement made the entire time I've been at ASA. ONLY if we vote it in people. Just because the company want's it does not make it so. What if the company said HUGE PAY CUTS or else would you just fold in contract negotiations, NO. The union scarred the pilots into thinking they would have to agree to it in negotiations or never get a contract. Wrong but you will never know now.

We would've not gotten a new contract without PBS period. All negotiations would have been contingent on PBS. Now we are already in negotiations for the next contract. So we've got a year and couple months now to work with PBS and improve it in the next contract.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So you ASA boys that argue in favor of PBS, how much vacation do you get a year? My last week of vacation, I was off May 23 - June 19th with ONE WEEK of vacation, and with a few picked up BRO overnights from IAH (2 hours flying for 7.5 hours pay) I got near 90-hours pay both months... Can your PBS do that?

PBS is a concessionary bidding system, plain and simple.

I have been turning 1 week of vacation into 5 weeks of vacation the past 2 years here at ASA. That isn't going to happen anymore with PBS. I voted FOR PBS knowing that. I understand the reality we are under in this competitive environment. It was nice while it lasted, but I can't really expect to get 20 weeks of vacation and still work for a profitable company...Reality sucks sometimes.....

 

[B.T.Justice]

To the XJT pilots, let me clue you in a little bit about how things work here at SKYW INC.
We have union and non union pilots. The minute the ASA pilots don't play ball, or if ASA doesn't control costs, then airplanes will be transferred to SKYW and ASA will furlough. Thats why we have PBS, thats why 700's were transferred to SKYW when we were in contract negotiations. PBS is an attempt to help the company control costs, and keep ASA costs down. Hopefully, XJT will win the seniority issue and combine all 3 carriers, otherwise, ASA and SKYW will continue to be whipsawed against each other, and the union carrier never wins that fight.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

I have turning 1 week of vacation into 5 weeks of vacation the past 2 years here at ASA. That isn't going to happen anymore with PBS. I voted FOR PBS knowing that. I understand the reality we are under in this competitive environment. It was nice while it lasted, but I can't really expect to get 20 weeks of vacation and still work for a profitable company...Reality sucks sometimes.....

Wow. You could at least do like our union was trying to pitch... PBS but we run it. Your line is built, then vacation dropped on top of it. Trips drop just the same but helps the company is many ways as well. Just give it all away so the company can make money... Gotcha.:cartman:

To the XJT pilots, let me clue you in a little bit about how things work here at SKYW INC.
We have union and non union pilots. The minute the ASA pilots don't play ball, or if ASA doesn't control costs, then airplanes will be transferred to SKYW and ASA will furlough. Thats why we have PBS, thats why 700's were transferred to SKYW when we were in contract negotiations. PBS is an attempt to help the company control costs, and keep ASA costs down. Hopefully, XJT will win the seniority issue and combine all 3 carriers, otherwise, ASA and SKYW will continue to be whipsawed against each other, and the union carrier never wins that fight.

I hope we're able to force them to merge all three, word is it looks like we may.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Wow. You could at least do like our union was trying to pitch... PBS but we run it. Your line is built, then vacation dropped on top of it. Trips drop just the same but helps the company is many ways as well. Just give it all away so the company can make money... Gotcha.:cartman:

If you want that, then you need to press ALPA for "brand scope". Until then, competition remains a real and valid issue...Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it go away. ALPA screwed the pooch on the issue of scope, and this is one of the casualties.

I want my company to make money....Makes it easier for me to bargain for what I want...Think long term....

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

If you want that, then you need to press ALPA for "brand scope". Until then, competition remains a real and valid issue...Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it go away. ALPA screwed the pooch on the issue of scope, and this is one of the casualties.

I want my company to make money....Makes it easier for me to bargain for what I want...Think long term....

I'll be honest, my post makes me look like more of a dick than I meant to be.. I went to edit it but you quoted me already. Hope you take no offense.

It's going to be a bumpy road ahead. XJT pilots as a whole largely against PBS. I've met maybe two guys in the last year that would even consider it. But this is for sure, we all need to work together.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'll be honest, my post makes me look like more of a dick than I meant to be.. I went to edit it but you quoted me already. Hope you take no offense.

It's going to be a bumpy road ahead. XJT pilots as a whole largely against PBS. I've met maybe two guys in the last year that would even consider it. But one this is for sure, we all need to work together.

No offense taken here...I have thick skin. I see you are a Reagan Conservative..so am I. I welcome you to Atlantic Southeast.

As I said, I am against PBS. It is going to make life worse for me. That being said, life will still be good and I believe it is looking up here. SKYW Inc. has been good for ASA. We had it really rough here before they came. ALPA couldn't help us with our prior managements.

It's in our best interest to work together and try to become leaders in the industry.

God bless Texas!:beer:

 

[crj567]

If you want that, then you need to press ALPA for "brand scope". Until then, competition remains a real and valid issue...Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it go away. ALPA screwed the pooch on the issue of scope, and this is one of the casualties.

I want my company to make money....Makes it easier for me to bargain for what I want...Think long term....

I am so sick of seeing you on this "brand scope" dead horse again. Give it up Joe-It will never happen again. If you think about it, "brand scope" did exist in some form back in the day. Mainlines had all their pilots on one list, doing all their own flying, and they STILL came out with a "B scale" and screwed their own-essentially laying the foundation for what have become regional airlines. Even before deregulation, this crap was going on-there is simply no way to stop it.

-Human nature always trumps "brand scope."

 

[ASABound]

CRJ567, you are an idiot....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I am so sick of seeing you on this "brand scope" dead horse again. Give it up Joe-It will never happen again. If you think about it, "brand scope" did exist in some form back in the day. Mainlines had all their pilots on one list, doing all their own flying, and they STILL came out with a "B scale" and screwed their own-essentially laying the foundation for what have become regional airlines. Even before deregulation, this crap was going on-there is simply no way to stop it.

-Human nature always trumps "brand scope."

FINE...Then quit your whining when we have to compete for the flying..You can't have it both ways.

Either change the rules of the game, or play the game....Accepting the rules while you sit on the sideline and whine and bitch about them isn't a solution....

I'm not going to argue about not getting brand scope anymore....It isn't going to happen...I'm accepting it and moving on. Let's compete and get as much as we can then while you sit on the sidelines and cry like a baby...:crying:

 

[JoeMerchant]

CRJ567, you are an idiot....

I second that motion....

 

[crj567]

CRJ567, you are an idiot....

If you buy this "brand scope" load, show me one example of where it has worked-ever (anywhere in the world.) Come on, Hoss-pony up!

My point is that it sounds nice, but so does communism. It is impossible.

-Never worked-never will.

 

[buscap]

On the PBS issue, the system and work rules we at ASA voted in are very different than anything else out there. That being said, I believe the next year is a great chance for both pilot groups to evaluate the system, keeping in mind complaints are likely to be relative to seat seniority, much as they are now.

And on another PBS matter, it's not just about vacation, or any single issue. There's integration, reserve, limited number of 4-days, etc, etc. It is not wise to get married to one single aspect of the PBS picture.

Let us at ASA finish crapping this turd. We ate the worm, so now we gotta see if it makes a floater or sinker. But don't judge it based on any airline or CAL's system or what folks have "heard" about ours.

In the end PBS may seem like a minor issue compared to the scope-bear you guys have in your contract. If that proves to be a show stopper, both groups may see pilots on the streets again, until the 65 retirement bubble pops.

 

[cybourg10]

We definitely need you ASA guys (mostly junior ones holding lines and on reserve) to be taking notes over this PBS thing once it goes live. We could use some of that real world knowledge come contract time. I could care less how it affects the top 10% in base, I am more concerned over what it does to the other 90%.

Texan what do you mean it looks like we might win the battle with SKYW? From what I hear it is the other way around.

God bless Texas indeed!

 

[PapaSiera]

Texan what do you mean it looks like we might win the battle with SKYW? From what I hear it is the other way around.

God bless Texas indeed!

Not what I hear! Call your reps.