Why are the 1700+ trannies pilots not recalling their status reps?

[ivauir]

I will admit that this would have been a whole lot easier if the MEC had reviewed the proposal before it was a TA and rejected it then..

They were fully briefed.

 

[Lear70]

Fam62, and gt1000- Great posts. Well thought out, and logical. PCL128, and Lear, you guys are a couple of knuckleheads. SWA is gonna love you two..

Opinions vary...

 

[madjack]

if Mr. Kelly cannot operate the 717 profitably in our system, he will do something...if I were @ aai I woud bid the 737

 

[Empennage]

Let's be REALLY honest...if YOU were taking a 30% loss of seniority, would you vote for it?

No way, Jose.

The AAI MEC did what's best for their pilots. That's their job. And arbitration is much preferable to the porking you clowns wanted to give them.

And for those who were not taking a 30% loss??

 

[scoreboardII]

Originally Posted by Fubijaakr
Let's be REALLY honest...if YOU were taking a 30% loss of seniority, would you vote for it?

No way, Jose.

The AAI MEC did what's best for their pilots. That's their job. And arbitration is much preferable to the porking you clowns wanted to give them.

No way Jose, lets be really honest, that 30% loss is a FALLACY presented by ALPA to ramp up the emotion train. Those pilots claim a 30% drop are actually being placed at damn near if not at DOH position. You think they should be placed anywhere near a 40 year SWA captain?

Another fallacy, 15% gain for SWAPA, BS, on average it was (SL9 no longer exists) no more than 8%, the best end game bump is 1% at retirement, most ending even next to their counterpart at AT, now how is that unfair? Should it be fair for SWA pilots to take a seniority loss through retirement? Answer that.

 

[Ty Webb]

No way Jose, lets be really honest, that 30% loss is a FALLACY presented by ALPA to ramp up the emotion train. Those pilots claim a 30% drop are actually being placed at damn near if not at DOH position. You think they should be placed anywhere near a 40 year SWA captain?
.

Have you even looked at the actual list? Sure doesn't sound like it.

I'm pretty typical . . . . . 29% on our list, would be at 61%, placed next to guys hired almost 4 years later than me.

 

[texman]

Oh well Ty, can't have everything.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Oh well Ty, can't have everything.

Tex, write that down, put in the envelop and seal.
Open and read when arbitrators makes their decision. It will be easier to swallow.

 

[canyonblue]

Have you even looked at the actual list? Sure doesn't sound like it.

I'm pretty typical . . . . . 29% on our list, would be at 61%, placed next to guys hired almost 4 years later than me.

I guess the point that many of us are making is that even though you are at 29% on the AirTran list, you need to exempt the percentage of pilots at SWA that are pre 1993. And those 2005 that you got funneled in with on the AIP, they would fall in the 40% range at AirTran. The AIP put them at 61%, are they losing out on almost 20%? DOH would put you at 49% on the SWA list, you would lose 12% with the AIP, and that is where the reality of the 12% SWA gain falls.

 

[ASADFW7]

Let it ride, double or nothing. Gambling is not easy when you have a mortgage to pay.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

I guess the point that many of us are making is that even though you are at 29% on the AirTran list, you need to exempt the percentage of pilots at SWA that are pre 1993. And those 2005 that you got funneled in with on the AIP, they would fall in the 40% range at AirTran. The AIP put them at 61%, are they losing out on almost 20%? DOH would put you at 49% on the SWA list, you would lose 12% with the AIP, and that is where the reality of the 12% SWA gain falls.

There goes the funny SWAPA math again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJS8GszWJuQ

 

[frqntflyr]

There really isn't anything fuzzy about the math. Let's take it to an extreme example to help you understand.

Airline A with 30 yrs of longevity on the pilot list buys Airline B which is running its first new hire class.

In this scenario DOH would cause airline B's #1 pilot ( a new hire) to lose almost 100% seniority. Of course this argument completely dismisses longevity which I am sure you are aware of.

The fuzziness comes from the spin AT folks are putting on their vested time with the company. A 24 year old new hire has no place next to a 60 yr old 30 year veteran. Keep drawing down the extreme example till you get to our situation. Hope that helps.

 

[SkiFishFly]

No way Jose, lets be really honest, that 30% loss is a FALLACY presented by ALPA to ramp up the emotion train. Those pilots claim a 30% drop are actually being placed at damn near if not at DOH position. You think they should be placed anywhere near a 40 year SWA captain?

Another fallacy, 15% gain for SWAPA, BS, on average it was (SL9 no longer exists) no more than 8%, the best end game bump is 1% at retirement, most ending even next to their counterpart at AT, now how is that unfair? Should it be fair for SWA pilots to take a seniority loss through retirement? Answer that.

Not really a fallacy. I would have gone from 60% to 89%. Sure looks like a 29% seniority loss to me.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

I understand what you saying, but with your offer, you pushed way too far to the other side. Making everyone loose 4 years from DOH and 650 guys stapled. That offer was your only chance to keep it out of arbitrators hands, and you gambled on fears of AirTran pilots to take it. You bent the stick too far, and it snapped. Would have been a nice bow if you were realistic.
Out of our hands now.


P.S. you can blame SWAPA and the greed of pilots who guided it for the arbitration ruling.

 

[canyonblue]

There really isn't anything fuzzy about the math. Let's take it to an extreme example to help you understand.

And we still can't explain it to the few here without the ability for abstract thought. The Alaska moron I get, he can't help being stupid. But you would think that the ones who were involved in this acquisition, at least did a little homework to understand the numbers. Unfrickenbelievable.

There goes the funny SWAPA math again

You should have taken higher math in school, you would be able to keep up here. Hillbilly.

 

[canyonblue]

I understand what you saying, but with your offer, you pushed way too far to the other side. Making everyone loose 4 years from DOH and 650 guys stapled.

No pushing too far to the other side here, I believe that offer pushed to the middle. Most would agree it should have been farther.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

No pushing too far to the other side here, I believe that offer pushed to the middle. Most would agree it should have been farther.

Fair enough. when two can't agree in America, the judge decides.

 

[The Prussian]

Fair enough. when two can't agree in America, the judge decides.

No...when seven Airtran pilots decide they don't like what was offered, then 3 people who are not tied to final outcome, get to decide the fate of all 8000+ pilots' and families'....let's say there's more than a little room for scepticism.

 

[canyonblue]

Not really a fallacy. I would have gone from 60% to 89%. Sure looks like a 29% seniority loss to me.

Usually the Navy guys are brighter than this. Your 60% position at AAI wouldn't get you anywhere near 60% slot at SWA, don't you understand that? Your 60% spot at AAI would probably drop you to about 80% at SWA for your DOH if it was in 2006. Even Mr Lucky, your Junior Captain, would be at 68% on the Southwest list. Yet he is a Captain, sound fair? And of course Ty Webb would land at the 54% spot at SWA, not a Captain yet. Even DOH would put him at 48%, not the 29% he enjoys at AAI. There will be losses, that you can count on.

 

[scoreboardII]

You bent the stick too far, and it snapped. Would have been a nice bow if you were realistic.


.

Riddle us this then, why did your NC agree to the terms? Were they realistic during their meetings with SWAPA?

Why did your MEC agree to let the NC run unchecked? Were they unrealistic?

When are we supposed to begin to see realism from your MEC or NC?

Next week, next year?

If you don't know the answers on when your team is realistic, how the ******************** are we supposed to know what you want?

This is a classic case of negotiating in bad faith, negligent or intentional, doesn't matter, your wasting everyones time.

No wonder every ALPA aquisition ends up in arbitration.

 

[OldManPilot]

Riddle us this then, why did your NC agree to the terms? Were they realistic during their meetings with SWAPA?

Why did your MEC agree to let the NC run unchecked? Were they unrealistic?

When are we supposed to begin to see realism from your MEC or NC?

Next week, next year?

If you don't know the answers on when your team is realistic, how the ******************** are we supposed to know what you want?

This is a classic case of negotiating in bad faith, negligent or intentional, doesn't matter, your wasting everyones time.

No wonder every ALPA aquisition ends up in arbitration.

I have to admit THIS post makes total since.

 

[OldManPilot]

Sorry I have not posted till now. I have been in a case of total shell-shock. I am disappointed that I did not get to vote; however, our MEC was not allowed to send it out with a NO recommendation. Their choice was approve it and send it out, or vote it down. Yes, I had to have that explained to me in simple terms. I still have hope for a fair outcome and look forward to a positive future. Let's just hope that calmer heads prevail.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Riddle us this then, why did your NC agree to the terms? Were they realistic during their meetings with SWAPA?

Why did your MEC agree to let the NC run unchecked? Were they unrealistic?

When are we supposed to begin to see realism from your MEC or NC?

Next week, next year?

If you don't know the answers on when your team is realistic, how the ******************** are we supposed to know what you want?

This is a classic case of negotiating in bad faith, negligent or intentional, doesn't matter, your wasting everyones time.

No wonder every ALPA aquisition ends up in arbitration.

Let me explain to you the way you learnt in your "previous life"...I don't wanna offend our retarded friend Sacha.

You had a war plan consisting of 2 parts: 1 offer unfair deal, 2 begin bombing (fear) campaign via FedEx letters to pilot's homes.

Fortunately for us someone on this forum was so eager to squeeze the trigger and fired a primitive shot, before phase 2 of the assault has began.

That gave up your position, causing your enemy to reinforce their defenses and to come up with a new strategy.

Put in simple words, your yapping on this forum trying to scare our guys and swing the upcoming vote, is why so many of us lobbied the MEC to vote this down.

 

[redflyer65]

If the majority of AT pilots wanted this to go out to a vote, they did a piss poor job of communicating it. Being a silent majority doesn't work in that case.

ALPA knows what you need. Haha

RF

 

[Fubijaakr]

Sorry I have not posted till now. I have been in a case of total shell-shock. I am disappointed that I did not get to vote; however, our MEC was not allowed to send it out with a NO recommendation.

Hopefully someone explained to you why an MEC can't send out something to MemRat with a NO recommendation.

 

[Sacha]

Let me explain to you the way you learnt in your "previous life"...I don't wanna offend our retarded friend Sacha.

You had a war plan consisting of 2 parts: 1 offer unfair deal, 2 begin bombing (fear) campaign via FedEx letters to pilot's homes.

Fortunately for us someone on this forum was so eager to squeeze the trigger and fired a primitive shot, before phase 2 of the assault has began.

That gave up your position, causing your enemy to reinforce their defenses and to come up with a new strategy.

Put in simple words, your yapping on this forum trying to scare our guys and swing the upcoming vote, is why so many of us lobbied the MEC to vote this down.

First off, you are not my friend,contemporary,equal, or fellow aviator or any other measure. Second and most important, how the hell would you ever know how to explain anything to someone in military terms? The greatest sacrifice you have ever made in your life was probably moving out of your parents house at the tender age of 30. Your arrogant, repeatedly condescending posts towards those who served may cut it at Airtran but I can guarantee you that you will never make it over here. Jerk.

 

[Music]

No...when seven Airtran pilots decide they don't like what was offered, then 3 people who are not tied to final outcome, get to decide the fate of all 8000+ pilots' and families'....let's say there's more than a little room for scepticism.

Of course this is only true if SWAPA chooses not to come back to the table for Mediation, yes?

 

[On Your Six]

No pushing too far to the other side here, I believe that offer pushed to the middle. Most would agree it should have been farther.

The abitrator and every other pilot out there will probably disagree. Get over yourselves.



OYS

 

[shootr]

Is that you OYS/GL? What'd you have for dinner? I think your butt may be getting bigger...maybe time to cut back on the ice cream?

 

[Fubijaakr]

First off, you are not my friend,contemporary,equal, or fellow aviator or any other measure.

Really? Really?

Get over yourself. You're a third world entry level jet gear jerker. Period.