Why are the 1700+ trannies pilots not recalling their status reps?

[shootr]

The difference is that GK has usually got what he wanted from the SWA pilots when he threw money at them. It doesn't work that way for the AAI pilots. For most of us, money has never been the driving force behind our career expectations. And IMO, thats why this failed.

Gary Kelly has NEVER "thrown money at the pilots"...until now. The AIP was likely the 1st and last time money will be thrown at the pilots at Southwest Airlines (hint - it wasn't thrown at SWAPA).

 

[Fubijaakr]

Lastly, lets try to be honest. The average seniority loss for airtran pilots was LESS THAN 30% from relative..

Let's be REALLY honest...if YOU were taking a 30% loss of seniority, would you vote for it?

No way, Jose.

The AAI MEC did what's best for their pilots. That's their job. And arbitration is much preferable to the porking you clowns wanted to give them.

 

[humveedriver]

"Actually, I'm not sure the AT pilots do want more in terms of money (they will probably end up with less), they just don't want to take a large DOH reduction that will stay with them forever."

Save the BS...you guys are going to get the money and you know it (DFR/SWAPA, CBA language etc...), you want the seniority AND the money, nothing altruistic, just greed plain and simple...

You're absolutely wrong on that point. I for one don' t expect both. I was even thinking that you guys may face a similar choice if the results of arbitration are not what your pilot group can accept. GK may offer your group more cash incentives to move on with an arbitrated list. We shall see.

 

[gt1900]

Probably the same reason not too long ago people bailed SWA for UAL and DAL. I remember not too long ago when SWA was a stepping stone for a lot of people. Remember, its only been the last several years that SWA has risen to the top, and your pay still isn't what UAL and DAL paid their 737 pilots before 9/11. I don't think any AAI pilots are on a high horse, and I don't think any of us our greedy. Many of us lost DOH minus another 20%. I don't think anyone was ever looking at relative seniority, everyone at AAI knows that would be a windfall for us, and thats not what we are asking for. But a 30%+ loss? Thats just too much! For many of us, the 10 year fence doesn't even protect us, because we will still be 5-10+% less junior then than we are now. If they need to negotaiate new 717 rates becasue of this, so be it. Hell, Id be perfectly happy keeping the current 717 rates. Again, money isn't everything. I know its hard for a lot of you guys to understand, but its true! We have enough guys at AAI who were on top and lost the money, and they know how important seniority is.

 

[gt1900]

Gary Kelly has NEVER "thrown money at the pilots"...until now. The AIP was likely the 1st and last time money will be thrown at the pilots at Southwest Airlines (hint - it wasn't thrown at SWAPA).

Perfect. Id gladly take my relative seniority and my current pay. Would you be OK with that?

 

[gt1900]

You are 100% wrong. Our NC even told us that GK said the 717 rates staying the same as the 737 rates was based on us accepting this SLI. Economically, it doesn't make sense to pay the same as the 737. Our pilot group turned down this SLI knowing that. So again, its not about the money.

 

[shootr]

Perfect. Id gladly take my relative seniority and my current pay. Would you be OK with that?

You may get your wish on a separate list that will never grow. Would you be OK with that? Like AA and Eagle except with a no growth provision. Maybe even a flow through...

While a B scale is distastleful to me, if the effects can be mitigated by SWAPA/SWA agreement, I MIGHT be able to live with that.

Again, this is not where I wanted this to go. But that was out of my control.

 

[gt1900]

You may get your wish on a separate list that will never grow. Would you be OK with that? Like AA and Eagle except with a no growth provision. Maybe even a flow through...

While a B scale is distastleful to me, if the effects can be mitigated by SWAPA/SWA agreement, I MIGHT be able to live with that.

Again, this is not where I wanted this to go. But that was out of my control.

Of course I don't want no growth. Just give me the growth from the 50 737 deliveries we had coming to AAI. Thats not asking too much.

Shootr, Im trying not to turn this into the pissing match it already has. Trust me, Im looking forward to hopefully being a great addition to the SWA pilots. Ill work my @ss off and hopefully contribute to the culture. BUT, you have to understand. Im losing DOH plus almost another 15%! There is a 10 year fence, but at the end of 10 years I will still be 10% less junior then I am now when the fence drops? I go backwards by nearly 700 pilots in 10 years! Is that really fair? If you were in my position, would you agree to that? Add the fact that too many of us know that money doesn't always last, and you will maybe understand where we are coming from..

Let me ask you this, would you be OK with us taking the current SLI if it guaranteed that if SWA came looking for pay cuts, AAI pilots wouldn't have to take them since we gave up seniority for pay?

 

[Daddy]

I think you trannies may want to check out our side letter 8. I would hate to see the worst happen here as I know a few guys there, but this was another big example of ALPA overplaying their hand yet again. DAL, NWA, F9, UAL, USAir....how many pilot groups is that union going to screw up and drag through BK before it is all over. I really think your MEC is playing with fire. 'Gary' will only go so far to make you a part of the SWA family, but he is a beancounter at his core...I wish I could explain the weird dynamic as it is unlike any other company and to most outside SWA/SWAPA just plain bizarre. If the pilot integration gets much worse, it is virtually guaranteed to be heinous among the FA's and mechs as we are sickeningly complaint compared to them. The FA's will no-sh!t burn this place down and Gary knows it. I think you will probably get one more chance at a deal in this quasi-mediation period, but then that's probably it.

 

[gt1900]

I think you trannies may want to check out our side letter 8. I would hate to see the worst happen here as I know a few guys there, but this was another big example of ALPA overplaying their hand yet again. DAL, NWA, F9, UAL, USAir....how many pilot groups is that union going to screw up and drag through BK before it is all over. I really think your MEC is playing with fire. 'Gary' will only go so far to make you a part of the SWA family, but he is a beancounter at his core...I wish I could explain the weird dynamic as it is unlike any other company and to most outside SWA/SWAPA just plain bizarre. If the pilot integration gets much worse, it is virtually guaranteed to be heinous among the FA's and mechs as we are sickeningly complaint compared to them. The FA's will no-sh!t burn this place down and Gary knows it. I think you will probably get one more chance at a deal in this quasi-mediation period, but then that's probably it.

I think your probably correct. My guess is that many of the protections will fall, for a little better seniority, and then this deal will pass. Hopefully then everyone can live as one big azz kicking family. I don't think anyone at AAI wants a windfall, and I don't think anyone at AAI wants SWA guys to suffer either. IMO, you guys will still get a pretty good seniorty bump with protections that will speed up your upgrade, and have more money in your pocket because of it. But again, please understand where we are comming from. Going backwards by 700 numbers when the fence goes away in 10 years isn't really exciting to most of us. I guarantee if you were in our shoes you wouldn't agree to that.