Why are the 1700+ trannies pilots not recalling their status reps?

[slaquer5]

No, Wall St will help him decide. This merger is good for his shareholders, period. He will blame the arbitrator, and that will be that.


OYS

Dudette,

Do you any life outside of FI ? Very pathetic life.

 

[whalepilot747]

7 guys are smarter than 1700? I dunno, I think trannies at the very least deserved to put their future in their own hands. F9 did then same thing and look where they are. Whether I was a yes or a no vote, I would want the opportunity to vote, to decide my own future. ALPA will never get it, it is a different world here but the paranoia and jadedness from ALPA will never see it. I hope that if/when trannies show up you guys don't spread that cancer here......

 

[Daddy]

FWIW, the latest from SWA is that Gary really is extremely pissed off over this. Not sure if that means he is going to his room to smoke and color or if he is really to go deal some 717's, but a guy I know at the GO says he has never seen him this PO'ed before.

 

[madjack]

I agree with GL, that Wall St will drive Mr Kelly's decisions, combining two groups of polarized pilots and thereby ruining the LUV at SWA will not go over well with the Stockholders, myself included...I realize that operating AAI separately is a low probability event but it is extremely high risk...

 

[flygirlqt]

This will turn into another colossal FAIL on ALPA's part.

 

[ArmadilloJackal]

No skin in the game here, but I think everyone's forgetting that we pilots aren't the center of the universe. A good deal for the company is a good deal for shareholders. If the deal made sense, they're not going to stop it because of one work group who feels entitled. I personally wish good things for both sides of the argument. We don't need another polarized unhappy pilot group in the industry.

 

[Ty Webb]

No skin in the game here, but I think everyone's forgetting that we pilots aren't the center of the universe. A good deal for the company is a good deal for shareholders. If the deal made sense, they're not going to stop it because of one work group who feels entitled. I personally wish good things for both sides of the argument. We don't need another polarized unhappy pilot group in the industry.

All very true.

There is a process agreement that was signed by all four parties. We need to follow the process we have all agreed to, and to do it like the professional pilots we are. Other work groups will be watching.

 

[DougCorp-9]

FWIW, the latest from SWA is that Gary really is extremely pissed off over this. Not sure if that means he is going to his room to smoke and color or if he is really to go deal some 717's, but a guy I know at the GO says he has never seen him this PO'ed before.

Of course he is pissed. Now he has to work on a new plan to get this thing to work. In spite of all the threats on here I believe GK is an honorable man. He is not going to screw over 1700 of his employees (yes we are SWA employees) who never even got a say in the future of their hard earned careers. This will probably get quite contentious but in the end it will get worked out somehow. I really wish I had gotten a chance to vote!

 

[shootr]

No skin in the game here, but I think everyone's forgetting that we pilots aren't the center of the universe. A good deal for the company is a good deal for shareholders. If the deal made sense, they're not going to stop it because of one work group who feels entitled. I personally wish good things for both sides of the argument. We don't need another polarized unhappy pilot group in the industry.

You're correct in that we're not the only groups that have to integrate. The other powerful unions, the FA's and the mechs, have been waiting and watching. As we go, so will they. IMHO, that's why GK pushed for a quick agreement between us. He thought we would be the easy ones and everyone would follow. From my interactions with FA's and mechs yesterday, they are far more PO'd about the whole thing than the pilots are. If we go militant, I know they will.

This is not how I wanted this to all go down and I wish no ill-will on anybody. I have friends at AT. I only see 3 possible outcomes, now...

1. Ugly for SWA pilots
2. Ugly for AT pilots
3. GK breaks out his wallet and makes us both "whole" so an agreement can be reached (I see this possibility as remote)

Our group will now fight to the death to try to stop #1. #3 is unlikely. #2 is NOT what I wished for but dang...I just don't see how I can hope for anything else. It's not personal at all. But I gotta protect my family.

shootr

 

[fam62c]

FWIW, the latest from SWA is that Gary really is extremely pissed off over this. Not sure if that means he is going to his room to smoke and color or if he is really to go deal some 717's, but a guy I know at the GO says he has never seen him this PO'ed before.

I don't know, this CEO is a top-notch professional and I'm sure he's disappointed because he wants this done but I'm also sure they looked at all the angles prior to doing this deal and they knew coming in that seniority arbitration between several unions was the likely outcome.

I wouldn't blame him for being upset that so much valuable time and effort was wasted for nothing. There was no need for all of this drama and it's unfortunate that they went public with the announcement of a TA that later got rejected without ever getting to a membership vote, it doesn't look good. These things are never easy but the AT union should have been clear on what minimum standards they needed to see in a TA to send it to the membership BEFORE they allowed a deal to be reached; this was just bad form that made things harder than they needed to be.

 

[ArcadiaMaxima]

He is not going to screw over 1700 of his employees (yes we are SWA employees) who never even got a say in the future of their hard earned careers. This will probably get quite contentious but in the end it will get worked out somehow. I really wish I had gotten a chance to vote!

So is that like saying American eagle pilots are American employees? You won't get screwed by American until they sell you off? An AT pilot is an employee of Airtran a subsidiary of SWA....what does it say on your pay check...mine says provided by the customers of Southwest not anyone else. I don't want any harm by someone losing a job but if it is between them and me....sorry buddy. If all this means the down fall of SWA then I hope they dissolve AT. Your MEC made your bed I hope you can sleep in it. After all it seemed everyone wanted it to go to arbitration...but now they want to vote....make up your mind.

 

[DougCorp-9]

So is that like saying American eagle pilots are American employees? You won't get screwed by American until they sell you off? An AT pilot is an employee of Airtran a subsidiary of SWA....what does it say on your pay check...mine says provided by the customers of Southwest not anyone else. I don't want any harm by someone losing a job but if it is between them and me....sorry buddy. If all this means the down fall of SWA then I hope they dissolve AT. Your MEC made your bed I hope you can sleep in it. After all it seemed everyone wanted it to go to arbitration...but now they want to vote....make up your mind.

Can you show me the last quarterly report for "Airtran"? Didn't think so. It is just a name. All the money from our operation goes to SWA.

 

[JT12345]

I don't want any harm by someone losing a job but if it is between them and me....sorry buddy. If all this means the down fall of SWA then I hope they dissolve AT.

You job is not at risk. Your quality of life is not at risk. Just your future expectations.


Well the whole industry has changed since you were hired a SWA. Your expectations were gonna change anyway even without this merger. This merger is a clear sign of that. SWA can not compete with us so they bought us. What happens when the next Airtran comes along, and the next one, and the next one.

The legacy's are not the same companies they were 6 years ago. Out of bankruptcy they are leaner and meaner. Both companies needed this and GK knew exactly what he was getting into.


Your gonna throw families on the street because of possible subjective future expectations being affected. That is really sick man. Doing that would make you guys no better than anyone else in this industry.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Of course Gary is pissed. This deal that got turned down was not a deal SWAPA came up with, it's a deal his office came up with. He is not Doug Parker sitting on the sideline watching the mudsling fest without input. He also knew that this was a first step in his intergration. First the pilots then FAs, and Mechanics, now he has to wait before moving to other work groups. He wants ALPA out of here, and this just means he has to deal with them longer.

 

[puddlejumper101]

You job is not at risk. Your quality of life is not at risk. Just your future expectations.


Well the whole industry has changed since you were hired a SWA. Your expectations were gonna change anyway even without this merger. This merger is a clear sign of that. SWA can not compete with us so they bought us. What happens when the next Airtran comes along, and the next one, and the next one.

The legacy's are not the same companies they were 6 years ago. Out of bankruptcy they are leaner and meaner. Both companies needed this and GK knew exactly what he was getting into.


Your gonna throw families on the street because of possible subjective future expectations being affected. That is really sick man. Doing that would make you guys no better than anyone else in this industry.

One thing you guys will figure out, if you have not done so already, is GK and his BOD are extremely good at what they do. This Airtran deal from his desk was a stroke of genious. Yes he took out his closest competitor, he also eliminated a low cost carrier. The only one left that has any size is Jetblue, and there are rumors with them too. Could be a scenario where SWA is the only low cost standing. ATL is a market where you can't go in with 6 flights a day and compete. Jetblue tried that and got kicked out of ATL so fast they forgot they were even there. ATL is not DEN where you have two weak carriers (UAL, F9) to compete against. In ATL, DAL was not going (they still won't) to just let SWA come in and make it a DEN. Pretty much SWA knew that in ATL, we either buy airtran or stay out. DAL has too much power in ATL otherwise.

Many people bring up what happened with Frontier, but that was different. GK, and the BOD once again showed their intelligence. This was never about the pilots. In that case you have a bankrupt airline going into a bidding process, and there is only one bidder in Republic. GK knew if he threw his name in the hat for the bid, he could drive up the price of Frontier (wich he did), look at their financials, and then pull out at the last minute making sure Republic paid way more than what F9 was worth. Also, Republic had already invested money into F9 so he knew that they were not going to walk away without an airline. He just made sure they overpaid.

He also managed to get CAL to just hand them slots to EWR, how you ask? By being a PEST to DAL/USAirways, blocking every attempt at their slot swap. He drove DAL nuts to the point that when CAL/UAL merged, CAL figured it was just easier to hand SWA slots than deal with them later since they were going to have to give up slots in their merger anyways. Don't underestimate this guy, and I know you personally have not but ALPA I think has. They have pissed him off more than this one time. Nothing personal but this might not be SWAPA vs ALPA, this might be more of SWA (GK) vs. ALPA.

 

[GuppyWN]

And then he STILL got DCA slots and more LGA slots. When we pull the trigger on jetBlue the plan will be complete.

Gup

 

[CaptWidgeon]

a couple things to remember about mr kelly, he comes from a bean counting back ground. we, the pilots, f/a's, mech, etc, are all beans.

he is a very smart and shrewd man. a turning point for any airline, and i'm going to guess any business that grows and succeeds the way swa has, is when the entrepreneur who started the company steps aside. imho, mr kelly doesn't have the empathy for the employees the way herb did, so he is more concerned with wall street and the share holders feelings than the internal customers. but if he had to cut his losses with either a swa body vs an air tran body, i'd put a healthy bet on which body he's gonna cut first, esp after this vote.

i look at it like alpa just told the air trans' new boss to go f' himself. i'm not saying i agree or disagree with them, if they didn't like the offer so be it. but if the big man himself comes in and makes an offer we gotta remember we just drive the bus, we don't run the company as much as we'd like to think we can.

good luck to aai.

 

[JT12345]

Buying Jetblue will sink you guys. They have a lot of debt.

After our merger announcment the USA Today came out with that front page article saying this was the last good merger in the industry. And explained the financials of other possible mergers. That may have changed since last September, but I have not heard otherwise.

 

[JT12345]

i look at it like alpa just told the air trans' new boss to go f' himself. i'm not saying i agree or disagree with them, if they didn't like the offer so be it.
good luck to aai.

And you know stop attaching vulgarity to the AAI vote. Watch your mouth and stop the properganda non sense. This deal sucked and everyone knows it in the industry.

 

[SSDD]

Daddy Kelly. Daddy Kelly. Daddy Kelly...Wait till Daddy Kelly gets home! He's going to beat your butt! Some of you guys are pathetic.