Why are the 1700+ trannies pilots not recalling their status reps?

[SWA Aviator]

The AirTran Pilot could have become the highest paid pilots in Atlanta, making more than a Delta 777 captain! As the turbine blades turn! Good luck boys and girls!!

 

[Pilot Knob]

Do you eat with that mouth? God...you people post some hateful stuff.

SWA Aviator edited his post, but I stand by my comment. We are, after all, still just pilots trying to support our families. And maybe spend one Christmas with them before they graduate.

 

[On Your Six]

The SWA pilots will learn what arbitration is all about, and that scares them. Lawyers will do the talking, and arbitrators will decide the future. Who's got the popcorn? One thing is likely, the bottom 650 won't only be Airtran pilots.



OYS

 

[puddlejumper101]

I will admit that this would have been a whole lot easier if the MEC had reviewed the proposal before it was a TA and rejected it then. If there were minimum standards that this deal apparently didn't meet it would have been good if the merger committee had known about those requirements prior to entering into discussions and completing a TA. There was a severe lapse in communication somewhere within the AT union command structure that resulted in this unfortunate drama.

Having said that, I also believe that it was a mistake for SW managment to get involved in a seniority list integration that should have been between the unions. If they really wanted to get involved to "grease the skids" and help a deal along they should have waited until deep into mediation when hopefully the process had had more time to bear fruit. I know (at least I think) they meant well and were trying to help but their arrival at the table created the appearance of "2-against-1" and may have put unnecessary pressure on the AT negotiators and created some misunderstandings. I think SW management made an (unintentional) error in judgement by trying to rush the process before it had a chance to work. The most movement in any negotiation usually happens at the very end of the process and the closer the two sides were allowed to get to arbitration without interference from management the more likely it was that a more creative deal would have been reached. Let's not blame the AT guys for everything.

This wasn't a failure of ALPA as much as it was a failure of the union at a local level. One thing that can be good or bad about ALPA depending on the actors involved is that ALPA gives the groups at each carrier a high degree of autonomy. Sometimes this works if you have the right pilots involved in leadership and a reasonable pilot group but often it doesn't.


We'll see how good SWAPA is someday when they get tested with a management team/CEO that's not as benevolent as the excellent leaders who have run SW in the past. Just remember that SW is only one bad CEO away from going from a great place to work to a lousy place to work. All it takes is a few bad quarters, a low stock price and some activist shareholders to get a Frank Lorenzo style guy into the corner office. It's a thin line between LUV and hate.

I totally agree, there are no guarantees and no one is entitled to anything. I think SWA went in because the faster this gets done, the less bickering between the groups. The longer this takes, the more tribalism there is. That was their intent, plus let's not forget, SWA wants ALPA gone, the sooner the better.

It was a gamble the company took, knowing that if it worked there would be harmony down the road. Arbitration will not bring harmony, not for a while, so it was a gamble worth taking. However, now that it didn't work the tribalism and finger-pointing will be worse. It already is...90% of the pilot group (number is a guess) right now is in shock...and really have nothing nice to say about Airtran. I am sure in ATL the feeling is mutual. So what is GK going to do now since this is what he wanted to avoid in the first place? Remains to be seen...at least it wasn't his own guys that turned his deal down.

I also might add that we know SWA is one bad day or one bad person from becoming a joke. This can happen to any company at any time, especially publicly traded companies. They have also managed to weed out the trouble makers (especially at the BOD level) for 40 years. Shoot, Needleman got fired from here...but you are right there is a thin line between luv and hate.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

tranny season!

wabbit season!:beer:

 

[CaptWidgeon]

The SWA pilots will learn what arbitration is all about, and that scares them. Lawyers will do the talking, and arbitrators will decide the future. Who's got the popcorn? One thing is likely, the bottom 650 won't only be Airtran pilots.



OYS

but in the end it is mr kelly who will make the final decision. does he have the current swa pilots backs? even the arby's don't know that.

 

[JT12345]

The SWA pilots will learn what arbitration is all about, and that scares them. Lawyers will do the talking, and arbitrators will decide the future. Who's got the popcorn? One thing is likely, the bottom 650 won't only be Airtran pilots.



OYS

Popcorn?

No.

Not here on the AAI side. Arbitration will scare us too.

 

[JT12345]

I will admit that this would have been a whole lot easier if the MEC had reviewed the proposal before it was a TA and rejected it then. If there were minimum standards that this deal apparently didn't meet it would have been good if the merger committee had known about those requirements prior to entering into discussions and completing a TA. There was a severe lapse in communication somewhere within the AT union command structure that resulted in this unfortunate drama.

Having said that, I also believe that it was a mistake for SW managment to get involved in a seniority list integration that should have been between the unions. If they really wanted to get involved to "grease the skids" and help a deal along they should have waited until deep into mediation when hopefully the process had had more time to bear fruit. I know (at least I think) they meant well and were trying to help but their arrival at the table created the appearance of "2-against-1" and may have put unnecessary pressure on the AT negotiators and created some misunderstandings. I think SW management made an (unintentional) error in judgement by trying to rush the process before it had a chance to work. The most movement in any negotiation usually happens at the very end of the process and the closer the two sides were allowed to get to arbitration without interference from management the more likely it was that a more creative deal would have been reached. Let's not blame the AT guys for everything.

This wasn't a failure of ALPA as much as it was a failure of the union at a local level. One thing that can be good or bad about ALPA depending on the actors involved is that ALPA gives the groups at each carrier a high degree of autonomy. Sometimes this works if you have the right pilots involved in leadership and a reasonable pilot group but often it doesn't.


We'll see how good SWAPA is someday when they get tested with a management team/CEO that's not as benevolent as the excellent leaders who have run SW in the past. Just remember that SW is only one bad CEO away from going from a great place to work to a lousy place to work. All it takes is a few bad quarters, a low stock price and some activist shareholders to get a Frank Lorenzo style guy into the corner office. It's a thin line between LUV and hate.

Good points about both sides.

+1

 

[On Your Six]

but in the end it is mr kelly who will make the final decision. does he have the current swa pilots backs? even the arby's don't know that.

No, Wall St will help him decide. This merger is good for his shareholders, period. He will blame the arbitrator, and that will be that.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Popcorn?

No.

Not here on the AAI side. Arbitration will scare us too.

Um, why? Your airline had the same size planes. Your airline was stable financially, making profits. Your airline had assets that SWA wanted, like ATL, LGA/DCA slots. And, SWA wants your planes on order. All of that equals a better deal than they offered you. Will GK then give you a B Scale afterwards? Only if he wants a Civil War, and I would think he probably does NOT.


OYS