Who's Flying Your Airplane? NO OUTSOURCING

[BobbyBiplane]

Read a few of your posts. You're a real genius. Go to hell clown.

You are still an idiot.

 

[Flopgut]

I've never violated anyone's contract....Keep poking your finger in my eye and that WILL change...ALPA never has been a union. It's a very loose association of independant contractors who bid against one another for work....

The mainline should have kept the small plane flying in house as they once did...However the big egos at the mainline were too good to fly "little airplanes"....Too bad...so sad.....

You need to STFU about unionism. Don't use the word again. Clearly you won't hesitate to violate a contract even though you haven't yet. If it was your contract this close to being violated you'd have yourself hoisted up onto a cross and chained to the front gate a CNN.

 

[doh]

Take it easy kiddies, I don't want the mods to start tossing you for name calling. They have been cracking down of late. Joe, mainline did create this mess. They have to fix it. How else do you propose they fix it other than negotiating a scope clause that says as contracts expire, the flying comes back in house? I can't honestly think of any other way to get the job done. Fragmented negotiating units have eroded the bargaining power of pilots to the point that it doesn't pay to get the ratings anymore. What is your solution if not negotiating the flying back?

 

[IBNAV8R]

Joe, what can you do if they don't renew your contract? I'm sympathetic to your plight, but I don't see anything that any regional pilot can do. You would have to have a scope clause that is binding on the mainline, and that won't happen. What else do you have in mind?

Agreed - it's not at the pilot level. But there's the small matter of an $88 million loan with UAL - in addition to any early termination fees. Cough it up or hand over the gates held as collateral.

 

[Twisted Mind]

...ALPA never has been a union. It's a very loose association of independant contractors who bid against one another for work....

Sad to say Joe is right about this. Worse yet is pilots don't seem to mind screwing their junior counter parts for any little bit of benefit to themselves. Pilots will do this even if it ultimately will kill their own career.

 

[acbarney]

Agreed - it's not at the pilot level. But there's the small matter of an $88 million loan with UAL - in addition to any early termination fees. Cough it up or hand over the gates held as collateral.

UAL has 9 billion (cash and short term equivalents) in the bank. Any 88 million loan plus early termination clauses will not be a problem.

 

[maru657]

There's really only one way to achieve a single seniority list flying all aircraft for each carrier. That is to take the seniority list of each of the commuters or reagionals currently feeding your airline and merge them into your own in some fashion, staple or otherwise. In this manner your union has taken control of the process the other pilots who would have been competitors are now compatriots. In effect this would be a start of re-regulation of the industry from the bottom up and once again, in effect you take control of the industry or cede that to others who probably don't have your best interests at heart. Lorenzo never did anything he wasn't allowed to do.

 

[buckeyes95]

I agree. The old guys destroyed this career for the young guys. Sold out on scope, Age 65. etc. It's time for them to get out of the way and us to take our careers back. You have a whole generation of pilots stuck at the regionals because of the prior generations actions. Do they even know that they created a B scale while fighting against one?

 

[IBNAV8R]

UAL has 9 billion (cash and short term equivalents) in the bank. Any 88 million loan plus early termination clauses will not be a problem.

With that amount of cash, why pay a lowly regional usury rates (11%) for a loan with gates as collateral. Makes you go, Hmmmmm.

You'll never get regional pilots on board with a single seniority list unless it as a fair integration (no staple). Also, with regionals whoring themselves out to many carriers, which regional pilots would go on which seniority list?

 

[chqflyer]

With that amount of cash, why pay a lowly regional usury rates (11%) for a loan with gates as collateral. Makes you go, Hmmmmm.

You'll never get regional pilots on board with a single seniority list unless it as a fair integration (no staple). Also, with regionals whoring themselves out to many carriers, which regional pilots would go on which seniority list?

Why would ANY regional pilot have any right to any sort of integration with a mainline list? A staple would be more than fair if somehow ops were combined. Realistically,why should any mainline pilot really give two ********************s about regional pilots. Totally different worlds.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Why would ANY regional pilot have any right to any sort of integration with a mainline list? A staple would be more than fair if somehow ops were combined. Realistically,why should any mainline pilot really give two ********************s about regional pilots. Totally different worlds.

Oh, I forgot: regional pilots should be falling over themselves to give up whatever they have to go to the bottom of the list again to maybe work their way back up to concessionary wages - if they're not furloughed first. You have my unconditional support.

 

[Flopgut]

This is not about SSL, age 65, or scope being sold out. Scope is being defended. Hurricane Jeff and tropical storm Glenn have hit Houston and the looters are showing up in 70 seat jets.

 

[Twisted Mind]

single seniority list flying all aircraft for each carrier.

Yes it is a good theory but in practice it would require senior "main line" pilots to give up pay and work rules. That will not happen. Most pilots cannot think about others. All they are concerned with is what they are receiving or are going to receive. Oh plus regional pilots are sub-par anyway.

 

[EngineThunder]

Joe Merchant is hilarious. He has PFT'd to get hired at ASA, sued to get on Delta's list with the rjdc, and admitted he has had several interviews but can't close the deal. Those are his three strikes and why he is stuck as a LIFER. None of this is his fault though. He blames ALPA, mainline pilots, etc. Look in the mirror Joe. He has no chance of going anywhere else.

 

[Flopgut]

Earlier in the thread I forwarded the possibility that ALPA fragmentation policy be used to bring the pilots flying the 70 seaters along with the aircraft in the event that scope is held to 50 seats. Not as good as a NSL, I'll admit, but I think it was a solid idea. Got called an idiot for it. Don't know why...

 

[ATRCA]

The mainline MECs and pilot groups created this mess...Not the regional pilots. Many of us have now made a career at these regional airlines because that is where the jobs have been the last decade.

The mainline MECs and pilot groups can either INCLUDE me in a solution, or they can EXCLUDE me in a solution....Choose wisely, because I will not support a solution that EXCLUDES me....If that is the choice, you can count on me and others doing what we need to protect our jobs.....

You gonna lose another lawsuit? Are folks on here supposed to be scared by you? Honestly. You're nobody. You just some guys sipping Diet Cokes in an RJ on your way back from a reduced rest overnight in BFE. Who gives a sheet!? You have no control. I frankly have no control either but at least I have a seat at the table. Contract carriers are the lowest life form in this business. It's well documented. It implies nothing about the pilots who work there. Most do a great job and carry on professionally. It unfortunately says a great deal about their employers and their business structure.

You work for a contract carrier. It doesn't get any worse than that! Your along for the ride. If you have a career in 10 years it will be because of luck and luck only. Take a look around. CMR, XJT, Air Whisky et al were all once great places to work. Those days are over. The airline business is crap but being at the bottom of the sheet pile is worse that being at the top. You're at the bottom because that's the business your employer is in. Your boss is hitchhiking on the aviation highway, whoring himself out to the lowest bidder.......that means SO ARE YOU! Good luck to you. You have no say and while your threats probably give you the illusion of a voice, you have none. You're a cost, a small number among many larger ones. You'll never be asked for your opinion because no one cares what labor thinks. Face it and move on.

 

[Da Vinci]

maintenance write ups at EVERY outstation-EVERY TIME there is a write up to be made. CAL pilots HAVE to take matters into their own hands or ....might as well use your hands to clap and and congratulate skywest as they take over the 73 routes. Even if the old guys don't give a $%^#, the fact the S. lorenzo is manipulating the CAL contract to this end should be reason enough to stand up and fight. and fly safe...all engines all the time, extra fuel and a taxi that should match a swift WALK. Once the 70s are on property it'll be too late. Those clowns will fly for 20 bucks an hour and do whatever lorezo says - with a smile.

 

[chqflyer]

Oh, I forgot: regional pilots should be falling over themselves to give up whatever they have to go to the bottom of the list again to maybe work their way back up to concessionary wages - if they're not furloughed first. You have my unconditional support.

Actually, that's exactly it's supposed to work. You put in your time at a regional then give up whatever crappy lifestyle you might have and start over again at a real airline. That's the natural order and there are no guarantees that you won't be furloughed or flat out replaced. You do realize that we only have jobs because United, American, etc replaced thousands of their pilots with us? A regional pilot is nothing more than a migrant worker, expendable and replaceable by the next CFI waiting at the flightschool. It's harsh, but that is the reality of working for a regional.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You need to STFU about unionism. Don't use the word again. Clearly you won't hesitate to violate a contract even though you haven't yet. If it was your contract this close to being violated you'd have yourself hoisted up onto a cross and chained to the front gate a CNN.

Unionism, unionism, unionism....Sorry, but I just used the word 3 more times....What are you going to do now? I think you need more fiber in your diet.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Take it easy kiddies, I don't want the mods to start tossing you for name calling. They have been cracking down of late. Joe, mainline did create this mess. They have to fix it. How else do you propose they fix it other than negotiating a scope clause that says as contracts expire, the flying comes back in house? I can't honestly think of any other way to get the job done. Fragmented negotiating units have eroded the bargaining power of pilots to the point that it doesn't pay to get the ratings anymore. What is your solution if not negotiating the flying back?

They can negotiate a single list WITH us....or they can pound sand...I'm fine with either choice...