Who is the biggest loser you have flown with?

[gkrangers]

No, you go from a glideslope descent all the way to DH and immediately initiate the missed. Because of inertia, almost every airplane will 'sag' below DH to some extent during the transition. It is not the hard deck of an MDA paradoxically!

Well I lead the level off...I don't hold the GS descent rate right onto the DH...I'll shallow it up so I don't go below. Granted, I'm doing this in a 172 or a BE76...so...its a little different than flying something heavier...

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Well I lead the level off...I don't hold the GS descent rate right onto the DH...I'll shallow it up so I don't go below. Granted, I'm doing this in a 172 or a BE76...so...its a little different than flying something heavier...

If you shallow up when weather is right at limits, you will not get in, or by the time you break out you will be off glidepath and eat up too much runway and no longer be able to land. In effect you will make your own missed approach senario when you should have been able to land. Also for the purpose of training and getting in on the real bad days you are permitted to go 100 feet below DH provided that you have the RAIL or other runway enviroment in site, however if at 100 feet you do not have the runway you go missed. Every 121 ride I ever took has this senario in it, 200 feet RAIL in site, at 100 feet runway becomes visible...then you land, if not visible, you go missed. Any deviation off of glideslope screws the approach up.

Not really a factor in light airplanes, but large stuff that is runway critical it is a big factor.

Also your procedure would get you a bust on any 121 ride. half scale deflection of glideslope (one dot at most carriers) is an automatic missed approach senario below 1000 feet. Your method would never get in since you would hit the missed approach criteria before you ever got to minimums.

Again it is a technique that works in light airplanes but is unacceptable in larger faster stuff.

 

[gkrangers]

If you shallow up when weather is right at limits, you will not get in, or by the time you break out you will be off glidepath and eat up too much runway and no longer be able to land. In effect you will make your own missed approach senario when you should have been able to land.

Not really a factor in light airplanes, but large stuff that is runway critical it is a big factor.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. When it comes to flying a "real" airplane, I'll do it the standard way. Having all that speed breaking out at 200 feet doesn't give a whole lot of time to get it in the touchdown zone...it comes up so quickly. You have to continue the descent rate, you can't stop it, or you will overshoot.

 

[pilothouston123]

I gotta stand up for all the pilots that have made a fool of themselves a time or two. You know that the're people too.

Just freaking idiots that should never be in a cockpit.


Meet me in the hotel lobby at 0600, I forgot my toothbrush so I went to the lobby at 0515. He is sitting there, dressed, ready to go.

I come back down at 0600... can't find him... The only guy that could show up 45 minutes early and still be late.

King air XYZ... cross ceader creek at and maintian 7,000. I look down and he has miss-programed the garmin vnav to start a decent in 25 minutes. We are only 18 m inutes from our destination. I had to take the airplane from him....

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

If you shallow up when weather is right at limits, you will not get in, or by the time you break out you will be off glidepath and eat up too much runway and no longer be able to land. In effect you will make your own missed approach senario when you should have been able to land. Also for the purpose of training and getting in on the real bad days you are permitted to go 100 feet below DH provided that you have the RAIL or other runway enviroment in site, however if at 100 feet you do not have the runway you go missed. Every 121 ride I ever took has this senario in it, 200 feet RAIL in site, at 100 feet runway becomes visible...then you land, if not visible, you go missed. Any deviation off of glideslope screws the approach up.

Not really a factor in light airplanes, but large stuff that is runway critical it is a big factor.

Also your procedure would get you a bust on any 121 ride. half scale deflection of glideslope (one dot at most carriers) is an automatic missed approach senario below 1000 feet. Your method would never get in since you would hit the missed approach criteria before you ever got to minimums.

Again it is a technique that works in light airplanes but is unacceptable in larger faster stuff.

Thanks, you save me alot of typing :beer:


I forgot my favorite loozer! My boss on the corp world!! He would fly with me
as a captain in a CE-550 on FAR 135 flights with pax. His approaches
bordered on dangerous, procedures were non-existant, on a LOC into NJ
he poped out fast, high and alligned with an occupied taxiway despite my
repeated calls: (Plus 20, 100 high....STILL... um....that's a taxiway you
might want to look to your left)

After the company went Tango Uni, the FAA gave me a call. Aparently, this
guy wasn't entirely qualified for FAR135 in a jet. Get this: He has NO TYPE
RATING, no instrument and no multi-engine licenses. I started drinking after
that. He got a $10,000 fine for each leg, and there were alot of leggs.

I hope he dies a horrible death.

CE

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

After the company went Tango Uni, the FAA gave me a call. Aparently, this
guy wasn't entirely qualified for FAR135 in a jet. Get this: He has NO TYPE
RATING, no instrument and no multi-engine licenses. I started drinking after
that. He got a $10,000 fine for each leg, and there were alot of leggs.

I hope he dies a horrible death.

CE

Are you serious? Holy cow. More details please. Man, I would consult an attorney over this. Just goes to show, there are some crazy mo fos out there.

 

[DrProc]

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. When it comes to flying a "real" airplane, I'll do it the standard way. Having all that speed breaking out at 200 feet doesn't give a whole lot of time to get it in the touchdown zone...it comes up so quickly. You have to continue the descent rate, you can't stop it, or you will overshoot.

You should fly every airplane the standard way, not just the "real" ones. They all will kill you if you are negligent, and the feds don't like guys that make up their own procedures and rules.

 

[Sig]

You should fly every airplane the standard way, not just the "real" ones.

EXACTLY. I can't believe that attitude... and a precision approach is what it is, it isn't just standard it's inherently done that way. I don't care if you're in a heavy or a hangglider- that's how it's flown. Sounds like the genius that came up with extending, retracting, and extending the flaps on final for short fields.

WOW.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Thanks, you save me alot of typing :beer:

CE

No problem!! I am sitting reserve in a hotel and have nothing better to do!!!

 

[tracearabians]

Sneezed!

Gotta be the same guy I flew with in MEI !

I flew with a captain who seemed to spend most of the flight with his finger up his nose. After he was done drilling he would wipe it on the DV window.

At dinner with the same guy, he sneezed without covering his nose and snot went all over my dinner. He got angry when I mentioned he should buy me a new dinner.

 

[tracearabians]

hand on gear handle

Hmmmm

I had an FO do this to me last week. If I'm doing something wreckless tell me. Don't put your hand on the da#n gear handle until I say, "gear down!" I've had captains do this occasionally, but an FO? Who does he think he is?

 

[tracearabians]

How did this guy get the job ?

Are you serious? Holy cow. More details please. Man, I would consult an attorney over this. Just goes to show, there are some crazy mo fos out there.

 

[gkrangers]

EXACTLY. I can't believe that attitude... and a precision approach is what it is, it isn't just standard it's inherently done that way. I don't care if you're in a heavy or a hangglider- that's how it's flown. Sounds like the genius that came up with extending, retracting, and extending the flaps on final for short fields.

WOW.

I dunno, maybe its that I've never flown an approach down to actual minimums, in real weather. I'm used to always going on the missed, so I slow my descent in anticipation of that. (We're talking a matter of the last 30 feet here) I also know I have 10,000 feet of runway avaliable...I'm not making excuses, just trying to get across what I do.

 

[EatSleepFly]

But I still don't see whats non-standard about leveling off at the DH. Its a Cessna, it doesn't need to sink below it.

That's not the point. It's a bad habit, bad form, and it's not proper procedure in ANY airplane, regardless of size. It'd probably earn you a bust on a checkride. If you do it in the real world, there will be times when you have to missed when you could've gotten in had you stayed on GS.

DH means Decision Height. That means- at that altitude on the glideslope- you make the decision whether to continue or go missed.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about it- it's almost common sense. But hey, if you want to do it the wrong way, risk busting checkrides, and be the guy going missed when everyone else gets in, have at it! :nuts:

 

[gkrangers]

That's not the point. It's a bad habit. It's bad form. It's not proper procedure in ANY airplane. It's a bust on a checkride. If you do it in the real world, there will be times when you have to missed when you could've gotten in had you stayed on GS.

DH means Decision Height. That means- at that altitude on the glideslope- you make the decision whether to continue or go missed.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about it- it's almost common sense. But hey, if you want to do it the wrong way, risk busting checkrides, and be the guy going missed when everyone else gets in, have at it! :nuts:

I get what you are saying, and I'm flying the GS all the way down. I then look up, and go missed or land. Like I said, my level off is probably caused by anticipating a missed approach, because I've never had to actually fly an ILS down to 200 feet.....and the fact that I've been led to associate the DH with a MDA. It does make sense now...I'm an idiot...carry on...

Gee, aren't we glad we caught this before I flew an RJ?

 

[EatSleepFly]

Nah, not an idiot. I distinctly remember having to hammer that into the heads of almost every instrument student I had. It's a common mistake I think.

 

[gkrangers]

Yeah, instrument student..thats right....

 

[gkrangers]

dp...

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Im surprised nobody mentioned the fact that you can go below DH if the runway lights are in sight..You may continue to 100ft and at that time must have the runway environment in sight to land. Approach lights are not the runway environment. Runway lights, reils, red terminating bars, or of course runway constitute the runway environment.

 

[ATRCAPT]

Just flew with a captain who was a former Marine. First leg he asks me why I didn't do the military route. My HONEST response was that I simply was never interested. His response was, "sure you were. You just didn't want it bad enough."

Phawk U!

He has quite a reputation around my company!