Who are the better pilots?

[AIR2MUD]

The NAVY prefers twin engine jets.

Just in case one gets all shot to hell, the other will get the crew closer to the boat.

Ejecting at sea is a whole nuther animal than ejecting over grammas back yard.

Right. And using the 'one gets shot to he!!, the other will get the crew closer to the boat' thought process, lets extend this battle-damage scenario a bit further.

The motors on a Hornet are so close together, that if one takes BD, the likelihood of the other taking a hit is highly probable. If you factor in a heat-seeker, the exhaust plume is so close chances are any missile will take out both motors. Even if it's just plain ol' AAA, and only one motor is hit, the chances of it eating itself, throwing out bits and pieces and damaging the other motor is highly probable.

So two motors are wonderful, especially in peace time blue water ops where a low oil pressure light or other problem might be cause to shut a motor off, and it will still allow a dude to make it back to the boat. I'm not buying the BD scenario.

Before you plug me as a Viper guy, look at my profile. At least our motors are far enough apart that losing one to BD may not cause the other to get toasted as well, as evidenced a few times in the past 14 years.

 

[AIR2MUD]

The comparison was made a while back. In the time it took a B-2 to get from Missouri to Afghanistan, ONE Tomcat going back and forth to the boat could drop more iron. Military action dosen't just HAPPEN. If the shoot hits the fan somewhere, a battle group is gonna be off the beach within days, if not hours. However if we need to knock out air defense/infastructure with minimal loss over a heavily defended target (say like North Korea?) then B-2's will earn the billions spent on them. Other wise, they just go east for a piece of the action. I can't imagine the logistics and money it takes to refuel and fly B-2's from Missouri to XXXX and back again (or to Diego). B-52's have been hellofa much better asset than -2's.

The logistical problems and waste of cash goes on both sides. Everyone feels the need to get in on the action, regardless of the attempt at everyone being 'purple' nowadays. I totally agree with your B-2 example - and don't even mention B-52s. They are still trying to convince everyone they can do CAS (yeah, I know it's a mission, not a platform, but gimme a break) - but I digress.

I have a Marine Hornet buddy who did OIF and another float not too long ago, guess he got back around January or February of this year. Anyways, from his perspective, flying the Hornets from whatever flattop was hanging out in the southern Persian Gulf, refueling before going feet dry, pushing inland, dropping two JDAMs, going feet weet, getting gas, then going back to the carrier was a complete waste of time and effort. Marine that he is, of course he'd rather be flying CAS from a land base than flying off the boat, but it's hard to justify sending a section of Hornets all that way just to drop two JDAMs. So the waste goes on as we all justify the reason for our existence in the new war-on-terrorism and the axis of evil world.

What amazes me most is the platform I fly is fighting for survival, when it is the weapons system the dudes on the ground love to have overhead the most. It's perfect for the types of conflicts we will be engaged in for the foreseeable future. When the CAOC wouldn't allow for grunts to call for a specific platform, they started requesting 30mm, 'cause we were the only game in town that had it.

Go figure. Or rather, don't because your cranium will explode in the process.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Is there armour between motors? to protect?

Ok, so if we can't determine who is better via mission types, then can we get back to Astronauts, golf courses, O'Clubs and Uniforms in general....

Oh and let's throw in Flight Demo teams..... The Blue Angels have been doing it longer and have better paint jobs and "costumes".

Oh and let's talk movies... Hollywood has treated the navy alot better.... Top Gun as corney, gay and weak as it was with that total wack-job Tommy Cruise is way better than Iron Eagle I, II and III. An Officer and a Gentleman trumps anything else you got...... what? Broken Arrow with Travolta (another scientolgy wacko) Slater....

Just love those USAF ascots.... sooooooo sexy

 

[414Flyer]

Right. And using the 'one gets shot to he!!, the other will get the crew closer to the boat' thought process, lets extend this battle-damage scenario a bit further.

The motors on a Hornet are so close together, that if one takes BD, the likelihood of the other taking a hit is highly probable. If you factor in a heat-seeker, the exhaust plume is so close chances are any missile will take out both motors. Even if it's just plain ol' AAA, and only one motor is hit, the chances of it eating itself, throwing out bits and pieces and damaging the other motor is highly probable.

So two motors are wonderful, especially in peace time blue water ops where a low oil pressure light or other problem might be cause to shut a motor off, and it will still allow a dude to make it back to the boat. I'm not buying the BD scenario.

Before you plug me as a Viper guy, look at my profile. At least our motors are far enough apart that losing one to BD may not cause the other to get toasted as well, as evidenced a few times in the past 14 years.

AV-8s ended up being a lot more vulnerable to shoulder fired heaters, than the F-18 was in GW1. The 18s had a good chance of making it back to land somewhere, whereas in the AV-8, having one engine, and right in the middle of the aircraft, made a hit more likely, and more serious too.

 

[Fury220]

Is there armour between motors? to protect?

Ok, so if we can't determine who is better via mission types, then can we get back to Astronauts, golf courses, O'Clubs and Uniforms in general....

Oh and let's throw in Flight Demo teams..... The Blue Angels have been doing it longer and have better paint jobs and "costumes".

Oh and let's talk movies... Hollywood has treated the navy alot better.... Top Gun as corney, gay and weak as it was with that total wack-job Tommy Cruise is way better than Iron Eagle I, II and III. An Officer and a Gentleman trumps anything else you got...... what? Broken Arrow with Travolta (another scientolgy wacko) Slater....

Just love those USAF ascots.... sooooooo sexy

Yeah, sure...uniforms and movies are of the utmost importance to a nation's ability to fight a war. Are you REALLY trying to say that TOP GUN made the Gavy a better fighting force?

YGBSM.

 

[AIR2MUD]

AV-8s ended up being a lot more vulnerable to shoulder fired heaters, than the F-18 was in GW1. The 18s had a good chance of making it back to land somewhere, whereas in the AV-8, having one engine, and right in the middle of the aircraft, made a hit more likely, and more serious too.

That's no news flash on the Harrier. Besides, what you're saying has no correlation to the gentleman who originally brought up the idea that the Navy likes two motors because when one takes a hit, the other can take it back to the boat.

Re-read what I wrote in response to him, and then reconsider what you're saying about the "...18s had a good chance of making it back to land somewhere..."

Keep in mind the tactics used during GW1 were vastly different between Harrier and Marine Hornet dudes, too.

 

[414Flyer]

Okay, how about a better chance making it back?

Seems to be a fair amount of mutual respect between the 16 and 18 communities, especially with it comes to ACM.

 

[AIR2MUD]

Is there armour between motors? to protect?

I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you. Besides, it's ARMOR, not ARMOUR!

Ok, so if we can't determine who is better via mission types,

In the end, the platform doesn't matter, as long as the dudes who fly, fight, and win get the job done. That is the bottom line.

then can we get back to Astronauts,

Spam in a can...

golf courses,

Air Force wins hands down on that one...

O'Clubs

Who cares, with all the PC and whatnot, partying in a squadron bar or off base is so much more fun and safer for career longevity...

and Uniforms in general....

The Marines win it all the way on this one. Talk about awesome-looking, blood-striped, panty removing clam wetters, any Leatherneck can be as ugly as sin and still get quite the pick of the litter with those bad boys on.

Oh and let's throw in Flight Demo teams..... The Blue Angels have been doing it longer and have better paint jobs and "costumes".

The Blues fly a tighter, more dynamic performance and do have better paint jobs. I don't know that I'd call their version of the panty removing, near orgasmic producing (for the ladies, that is) tailored flight suits "costumes", but whatever.

Oh and let's talk movies... Hollywood has treated the navy alot better.... Top Gun as corney, gay and weak as it was with that total wack-job Tommy Cruise is way better than Iron Eagle I, II and III. An Officer and a Gentleman trumps anything else you got...... what? Broken Arrow with Travolta (another scientolgy wacko) Slater....

Dude, you missed the best military flying movie of all time...The Great Santini. All those other movies are not worth mentioning. Of course, how could you forget the abortion that surely sent floods of recruits to the Army, 'Firebirds'.

Just love those USAF ascots.... sooooooo sexy

If you're talking about the scarf, well, it's enough to make me barf. I have never seen one around my squadron, EVER.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah, sure...uniforms and movies are of the utmost importance to a nation's ability to fight a war. Are you REALLY trying to say that TOP GUN made the Gavy a better fighting force?

YGBSM.

Re read my post...... I did a pre-emptive strike on your repsonse....

It's all about the show......

I could discuss tailhooks and carrier avaition in general, but it really isn't fair....

USAF...... Nothing but an over funded Flying Club

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The Marines win it all the way on this one. Talk about awesome-looking, blood-striped, panty removing clam wetters, any Leatherneck can be as ugly as sin and still get quite the pick of the litter with those bad boys on.

Dude, you missed the best military flying movie of all time...The Great Santini. All those other movies are not worth mentioning. Of course, how could you forget the abortion that surely sent floods of recruits to the Army, 'Firebirds'.

.

Hmm Marines.... Yeah I got The Great Santini in my Netflix que... A great movie. Lot's of analogies there for raising kids.....

(My two kids were acting up real bad... so I lined them up in front of the house...Santini style......)

Aren't the Marines a Dept. of the Navy.....