White House & Capitol Evacuated

[gfvalvo]

Ok..I don't like 100 miles. I couldn't even fly to Atlantic City or Cape May.

How about just a total ban on non airline traffic in the current ADIZ? Maybe expand it to 40 or 50 miles?

Kind of an odd suggestion considering that the two worst terrorist attacks in this country involved airliners and wheeled vehicles (not sure if Oklahoma City was a truck or a van). In fact there has never been a terrorist attack using light GA aircraft in this or (to the best of my knowledge) any other country. Are you going to ban SUV's, rental trucks, and vans from all major cities?


Having said that, this guy must have had his head so far up his a$$ that the lump in his throat was his nose. Consider:

1. Not using VFR flight following

2. (apparently) not keeping a listening watch on 121.5

3. (apparently) not even a hand-held GPS to help with airspace issues

4. (apparently) attempting to navigate the DC airspace using only pilotage

5. The straight-line distance from Smoketown, PA to Lumberton, NC is 353 nm. That's kind of pushing it in a C150. Given the above, I'd be willing to bet he didn't even flight plan a fuel stop.

Perhaps in order to possibly avoid worse damage to GA (and the moron politicians implementing even tighter restrictions), the best thing would be for the FAA to crucify this guy. Permanently pull his ticket and make an example of him. Also, civil fine and confiscate the aircraft.


Greg

 

[flyifrvfr]

Ok friend, who's really rationalizing. The small aircraft advocates who "know" that a small aircraft couldn't be dangerous, or me, a person who is giving some sort of explanation as to why the authorities get so worked up about an errant small plane.


While some of you are busy burying your heads in the sand as you declare the lack of threat that small aircraft pose, the movers and shakers are moving closer and closer to completely legislating us out of the sky. Instead of telling them they are wrong, maybe we should try and understand what scares them. Like it or not, they have the power to completely shut us down, and just telling them that a C150 isn't a threat won't stop them.

I'm ready to support a total ban on non-commercial aviation anywhere withing a hundred miles of DC. I'd rather not, but if this kind of airspace violation continues we might end up with a total ban on a lot more airspace than just DC.

I still can't believe that these pilots busted the airspace, and I'm even more incredulous about the way that some of you are just blowing this off.

enigma

You are a complete moron. I gather that you don't make your living in the Baltimore Washington airspace. I instruct out of Martin State Airport and have witnessed first hand the decrease in GA activity there as a result of the ADIZ. If the ADIZ were to be extended any further it would do nothing but kill GA in this area which is already hurting from the existing ADIZ. You can support more restrictions as long as it is not in your back yard. You are no different from the idiots in the TSA and Homeland Security.

The ADIZ as it stands now has over-worked controllers who have to deal with the pilots who play by the rules and make a living in the ADIZ. As I said earlier, GA activity has decreased, but it has not yet died. Owners don't fly on a whim anymore, they need a reason to fly to justify the exposure to violations. In the ADIZ, if your transponder stops working you will be violated by the FAA and charged with numerous violations with the worst being careless and wreckless flying. I know of which I speak, I know many pilots who stopped flying after transponder failures earned them a violation. We have no way of knowing that the transponder has failed while we are flying and bingo, just like that, a record of careless and wreckless flying for what?

I have plans of flying for a regional and then going on to Netjets. Would Netjets hire me with this violation on my record? This is the risk I take each and everyday I fly in the ADIZ, and now you want to extend it or even an out-right ban just so you can fly in another part of the country, How ignorant and self centered!

GA is now the major pipeline to bigger and better things. I will explain this to you because you lack the brains to figure this out. I go to flight school and earn my CFI license. I then teach and build hours to move onto a 135 charter or 121 regional. I continue to pay my dues and land at a fractional which is where I want to be and worked so hard to get. How do you propose I earn my time to get to this level if non-commercial aviation was off limits. A very small portion of pilots come from the military which is the reverse of what was true long ago. I am too old to join the military, so I guess that my desire to fly is too bad because you want a ban on non-commercial aviation.

As I said, you are a complete moron.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

awww, come awnnn, tell us how you really feel????

 

[flyifrvfr]

This thread has really bothered me just because people are buying into the problem of terrorism. First let me remind everyone that the terrorist struck the twin towers with a car bomb in 1993. They then waited patiently for 8 years to strike again. In this time, Tim McVeigh parked a Ryder truck in front of a federal building and blew it up Killing 160 some people.

Fast forward to Sept 11, 2001. Eight years go by and the terrorist board American ( as USA ) airliners and use these airliners as guided missles. The target once again the twin towers. The terrorist used our planes loaded with our people, and crashed them into our buildings. This is a huge blow to the American people. The terrorist struck to the heart of America by planning and executing an act of terrorism that will be remembered just as Pearl Harbor will be remembered.

The point of all of this is why would a terrorist jump in a small plane and kill himself for little impact? The terrorist are radical, not stupid. The terrorist are looking for big numbers. This concerns me because I can't think of what they will do next. I just don't think that small planes are of interest to terrorist because of the lack of damage they can do.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! IT'S A CESSNA 152!!!

Here's the Bumpersticker

http://www.cafepress.com/pacificnwflying.22331165

 

[lowlycfi]

From AOPA....

AIRSPACE VIOLATION A CLEAR LESSON FOR ALL PILOTS
Pilots must take responsibility for every part of their flight, including understanding local airspace, conducting proper flight planning, and managing navigation. That's the lesson all pilots can take from Wednesday's incursion into the flight-restricted airspace around Washington, D.C. "Every pilot is responsible for proper flight planning, and in today's security environment you just can't afford to make mistakes," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. The White House, Capitol, and Supreme Court were among the buildings evacuated when Hayden Sheaffer, a certificated pilot but not a flight instructor as some media reported, and Troy Martin, a student pilot, strayed into the air defense identification zone (ADIZ) and within three miles of the Capitol in their Cessna 150. The two were flying from their home base at Pennsylvania's Smoketown Airport, to a fly-in in Lumberton, North Carolina, when they were intercepted by military aircraft and diverted to Maryland's Frederick Municipal Airport.

AOPA SETS RECORD STRAIGHT
While there's no excuse for violating such highly publicized, sensitive airspace, there's also no excuse for getting the facts wrong. That's why, in the hours after the incident, AOPA President Phil Boyer and members of the AOPA media relations staff focused on correcting the many factual errors and misconceptions appearing in news reports. AOPA staff spoke with dozens of television networks, local television and radio stations, newspapers, and wire services in an effort to correct the sometimes-outrageous statements being made by so-called aviation experts with little or no understanding of general aviation. "A Cessna 150 is an extremely small two-seat airplane. Even fully loaded it weighs significantly less than a Honda Civic," Boyer explained. "It's simply incapable of doing much damage." In one case, law enforcement authorities indicated that the airplane had been stolen. In fact, both men on board were part owners of the airplane and had followed their flying club's scheduling procedures for the trip. See AOPA Online.

 

[TDTURBO]

No, it is one of the most clearly written statements in this thread. A private pilot may carry a passenger. It doesn't matter if that passenger is another pilot, a student, or a non pilot. I'm not finding the misinterpretation that you are.

Ok Gk, that's what I thought you meant.

As for the guy that looked up to see if the guy was a CFI, It takes months before it gets on the FAA's list. I have a Multi rating and 2 months later it still doesn't show up. So checking ratings on the FAA site doesn't mean anything, the guy that was with him was a CFI.

 

[lowlycfi]

As for the guy that looked up to see if the guy was a CFI, It takes months before it gets on the FAA's list. I have a Multi rating and 2 months later it still doesn't show up. So checking ratings on the FAA site doesn't mean anything, the guy that was with him was a CFI.

Dude where are you getting this from? The guy was not a CFI. BTW, his date of issue on his certificate was 1969. I agree it takes some time for the registry to update your certificates, but I don't think this guy got an instrument rating, commercial certificate and the CFI in the last two months. Read the AOPA article. Believe it or not, the media sometimes makes mistakes.

From the registry:

HAYDEN LOWERY SHEAFFER JR

Address

Street 1209 ORCHARD RD
CityLITITZ StatePENNSYLVANIA CountyLANCASTER Zip Code17543-9702 CountryUNITED STATES​

Medical

Medical Class :ThirdMedical Date:06/2003
<LI>MUST WEAR CORRECTIVE LENSES.


Certificates

1 of 1

DOI :10/25/1969Certificate:PRIVATE PILOT​

Rating(s): PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND​

 

[Traumahawk]

This just goes to show how much safer we are since 911, and especially after the supremely timed invasion of IRAQ. I mean hey, I feel Safe.

WOW...a cessna 150 nearly shut-down the capitol of the most powerful country in the world.

Perhaps after this incident, we could reason that Abu Dabi may have cessna's of mass destruction and tactfully invade by sending even more Americans abroad to march around the streets like sitting ducks.....

Of course Bush will ride horses at his ranch recollecting his days of war....

Ahhhhh.....go ahead, say it. I'm a commie pinko tree hugging bleeding heart liberal. ...Try again.

 

[sky37d]

These folks busted at least 8 FARS, and should be hung out to dry. They should be fined, never allowed near an airport or an airplane. I fly a bug smasher, and I like what Phil Boyer had to say

"I am frustrated as hell,"
"How, with four million emails last year about TFRs, with two
education campaigns that still exist on our website, with
partnering with TSA for things, with editorials, with constant
pressure -- how can pilots within a shadow of the DC area ignore
all that and fly into the heart of the ADIZ?"

I just don't understand how they could be so stupid, and they ought to be drawn and quartered for their stupidity.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

i concur, quarter the old bastard and make /G a mandatory ADIZ equipment

 

[LXApilot]

I Aint Skeered

When is everyone going to settle down and take this for what it is? When President Clinton was in the White House a Cessna 152 crashed directly into the White House- and there was hardly a news blurb about it. With the news coverage they give 'Bushie' and those 'law breaking, FAR violating, general aviation pilots' that the National Guard was prepared to shoot down, got everyones panties in a wad. Who cares- REALLY? Has the threat environment really changed? No. Are mad men more likely to crash airplanes into the White House today than in 1997? No. Will Al-Qaeda or any other terrorist organization ever use another suicide airline attack again? No. Come on people, the terrorist are smart- and they go with the element of surprise. They've already been there, done that. But of course, anything to make the peon's feel 'safer' at the expense of civil liberty and the privlidge of plying the American skies. What happens in the skies over America should NOT be public. It should be privlidged information to law enforcement, defense, FAA, and airspace users. Just a thought- nobody cares about a 152. If we have a Gulfstream or bigger NORDO in P-40, then my ears will perk up...

 

[TDTURBO]

Lowly CFI,

I agree the media is wrong more than they are correct, my source is pretty accurate because he knows the pilot. I also just heard on the news again that he was a CFI. I know this doesn't mean anything except that the media can't be trusted, neither can the FAA or their records. I guess we will just have to wait until the final report. Even those are scewed and full of errors. I think it best we all fly with a handheld GPS with battery backup to keep us out of situations like this. For less than 500 bucks you can save yourself a lot of grief. CFI or not, anyone that violates TFR's are just going to ruin it for everone else, I think they should have shot him down, then pilots would get the message.

 

[flyifrvfr]

i concur, quarter the old bastard and make /G a mandatory ADIZ equipment

Slash Golf is not the answer Mr. Garmin. A GPS can get you into as much trouble as it gets you out of. The problem is that GA was not responsible for the failure of the INS,CIA,FBI to keep track of aliens on expired Visas. Because the Government has egg on their collective faces, they choose to establish onerous airspace restrictions and hand out violations for equipment failure that we have no control over.

The government is operating in a knee-jerk reaction fashion. They have pulled the wool over the eyes of the public. The public thinks that If the government thinks GA is a risk then GA must be a risk and should be banned. That will stop the terrorist. Ban GA and remove those dangerous Cessna 150's out of the air. Do you know how Ryder truck responded to the OKC bombing. You must have a valid credit card to rent a Ryder truck now. This should stop the terrorist with bad credit.......

 

[flyifrvfr]

Lowly CFI,

I agree the media is wrong more than they are correct, my source is pretty accurate because he knows the pilot. I also just heard on the news again that he was a CFI. I know this doesn't mean anything except that the media can't be trusted, neither can the FAA or their records. I guess we will just have to wait until the final report. Even those are scewed and full of errors. I think it best we all fly with a handheld GPS with battery backup to keep us out of situations like this. For less than 500 bucks you can save yourself a lot of grief. CFI or not, anyone that violates TFR's are just going to ruin it for everone else, I think they should have shot him down, then pilots would get the message.

How would you like a police officer to shoot you because you fail to use a turn signal. Maybe you went through a redlight and a police officer sees this and pulls up next to you and riddles you with bulletts. I mean after all, you know what a redlight means. You have been driving long enough to know that redlight runners are dangerous and have caused accidents in the past. Shooting you will send a message to all drivers that running a redlight will not be tolerated....

 

[enigma]

Hi there bud, this is the moron speaking.

You are a complete moron.

That explains why I'm responding to you, .........and why I still stay in this business. You and my ex-wife sure got me figured out.

I gather that you don't make your living in the Baltimore Washington airspace. I instruct out of Martin State Airport and have witnessed first hand the decrease in GA activity there as a result of the ADIZ. If the ADIZ were to be extended any further it would do nothing but kill GA in this area which is already hurting from the existing ADIZ. You can support more restrictions as long as it is not in your back yard.

You gather correctly, I suggest that you consider the effect on your precious GA activity if some terrorist actually uses a Cessna and hits something in the DC proper. It won't matter if he does any serious damage to the object he hits, the max damage will be to GA, probably nationwide.

I support increasing the no fly zones ADIZ specifically to help you keep that GA job. It may please you to know that I also support shutting down National, PERIOD. That would be in my back yard. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, you apparently choose your wallet over national security. If you happen to have forgotten, the bad guys are out to get us, September 11 wasn't a single event.

You are no different from the idiots in the TSA and Homeland Security.

Now that hurts, deeply.

The ADIZ as it stands now has over-worked controllers who have to deal with the pilots who play by the rules and make a living in the ADIZ. As I said earlier, GA activity has decreased, but it has not yet died. Owners don't fly on a whim anymore, they need a reason to fly to justify the exposure to violations. In the ADIZ, if your transponder stops working you will be violated by the FAA and charged with numerous violations with the worst being careless and wreckless flying. I know of which I speak, I know many pilots who stopped flying after transponder failures earned them a violation. We have no way of knowing that the transponder has failed while we are flying and bingo, just like that, a record of careless and wreckless flying for what?

OK everyone listen up, flyifrvfr's finances have been hurt by airspace restrictions. Could someone please arrange for ADIZ to go away.

Brother, you sound like the radio commercials where a prospective home seller calls the NYSE and asks for the bell ringer. I'm sorry that you happen to live near the Capital. Maybe you need to consider moving to an area more conducive to continued flight training opportunites.

I have plans of flying for a regional and then going on to Netjets. Would Netjets hire me with this violation on my record? This is the risk I take each and everyday I fly in the ADIZ, and now you want to extend it or even an out-right ban just so you can fly in another part of the country, How ignorant and self centered!

How ignorant and celf centered! Wow, I couldn't have said it better myself.

GA is now the major pipeline to bigger and better things. I will explain this to you because you lack the brains to figure this out. I go to flight school and earn my CFI license. I then teach and build hours to move onto a 135 charter or 121 regional. I continue to pay my dues and land at a fractional which is where I want to be and worked so hard to get.

Darn, I never realized how a PROFESSIONAL AVIATOR came to be.Thanks for giving me that scoop.

How do you propose I earn my time to get to this level if non-commercial aviation was off limits.

How do you propose to earn your time if a terrorist happens to get as close to the Whitehouse as did this 150?

A very small portion of pilots come from the military which is the reverse of what was true long ago. I am too old to join the military, so I guess that my desire to fly is too bad because you want a ban on non-commercial aviation.

As I said, you are a complete moron.

Frankly my friend, your opinion of me doesn't matter. If we were face to face, maybe I could challenge you to a duel. But alas, we'll never meet. I had so hoped to be able to make your acquantance, in the mean time I'll just have to ask you to consider the effect on your livelyhood, and the freedoms of a lot of us if the next 150 happens to be piloted by a Atta wannabe?


To anyone who has read this far, I support increasing the ADIZ radius because that is the only way to give the F16's adequate time to assess the threat. I suspect that those to guys from PA came about fifteen seconds from eating lead. That would be tragic, and I expect that they would have had even less of a break had they been flying something like a Bonanza or Baron.

I know that some of us don't like to see the media/government take gratuitous potshots at an easy target like GA, but like it or not, they have the power to shut us down. If more stuff like this happens, I'm afraid that the restrictions will be much more severe than just increasing the ADIZ size around the DC area.

enigma

 

[flyifrvfr]

Enigma, if GA were to be shut down in the BAlto/Wash area, how long would it take to do that where you live? While you say you support a larger ADIZ, you give more ammunition to the terrorist because of your fear. Your reaction is exactly the same as the general public and that makes you as ignorant as they are.

If you think that a terrorist is going to use a Cessna 150 as a weapon you are sadly mistaken. In the late 90's a Cessna 150 did indeed hit the Whitehouse. The suicidal pilot decapitated himself and broke a window. In other words someone has been there and done that. How many airports do you think were harmed by the existing ADIZ? How many businesses will be lost under the blanket of national security? Are you more secure now that there is a ADIZ and FRZ around D.C.?

What would stop a terrorist from buying weapons and going to D.C. and shoot as many people on the streets as they can? Since this is a possibilty, should we ban all guns? What would stop a terrorist from spiking the food supply with chemicals? Should we ban all food? What I think of people like you would get me put in the penalty box for sure If I told you. AS for meeting me for a duel knowing that you live in fear brings me more joy than mere words could express. Fear, can you smell it???

 

[minitour]

How about instead of enlargin the ADIZ, or requiring IFR only or airline only or even /G required we do this:

You bust the airspace (with the current requirements and nothing more), they send up an "escort".
They send out the flares once. If you don't follow them, the only thing left of you is a vapor trail...

For IFR peeps, we can develope a published procedure for if/when you go NORDO in IMC and one for if you're VMC (specific airports to land at or get ouf of the ADIZ). Don't do it and you get the "escort". If you don't follow them, see above.

I'm okay with that. Is it a deterrent for me to fly around that area? Yeah! But does it mean GA will die in that area? Hardly. Lots of people will still be able to do what they do every day in that area.

MHO

-mini

 

[airspeed]

After reading most of the posts regarding this topic its pretty clear that people on this board were in favor of the C150 getting shot down. I guess human life doesnt mean that much anymore and everyone in favor of this can honestly say they deserved it??? Does that really make any sense? Noone hear was in that plane that day and although one may wonder how the hell did they screw up that bad everyone makes mistakes. Should they get there tickets suspended, sure I agree with that. Revoked, so it sets an example for who?? Oh I get it we will revoke your ticket to set an example to make sure you never make a mistake like that again, might as well take humans out of the cockpit and use only UAV's, but wait dont computers mess up too? It was a bad day, a bad situation and yes I agree they should get there tickets suspended. I hightly doubt they did this intentionally. Why I am against a shootdown should be obvious and hell if Bush was gone the world IMHO would be a better place, yeah thats **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** right I said that! Someone on here posted that these pilots should never be in an airplane again, give me a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** break. If you never made a mistake in your life then you have the right to say that I guess but I highly doubt it. IMHO again the more laws in the name of homeland security and no fly zones that are passed the tighter the noose around our necks. I am sure anyone can see that!

 

[TDTURBO]

How would you like a police officer to shoot you because you fail to use a turn signal. Maybe you went through a redlight and a police officer sees this and pulls up next to you and riddles you with bulletts. I mean after all, you know what a redlight means. You have been driving long enough to know that redlight runners are dangerous and have caused accidents in the past. Shooting you will send a message to all drivers that running a redlight will not be tolerated....

Turn signal huh?

What are you talking about? Flying 3 miles from the white house is a little different than not using a turn signal. Anyone stupid enough to do what this pilot did deserves a SAM up his ass.
I doubt anyone would disagree with me either.

BTW: How do you like your avitar since you got it from me?