When is US Air West going to sue ALPA?

[AVI8V1]

fdj2
thanks for the input, I am trying to educate myself on the debate.
Does anyone know what in particular the east says was violated in the integration protocol?

I also understand that if you project the new list out 7 years, with retirements 4 to 1 east to west, all widebody captain slots will be held by west pilots (if they choose to bid them).

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I think the East plan now is simply to delay. They hope that by keeping the airline apart they will be able to take advantage of the attrition. Basically they want as many guys to become CA from their list as possible; even the dead ones.

They know its a matter of time, but they're trying to slow it down by suing. Problem is, they've poisoned the process for all of ALPA, not to mention they're wrecking the airline in the process.

They'll argue it was already wrecked, but damn if these guys aren't willing to sink 45,000 USAirways workers' livelihoods so some guys who weren't working here can be placed ahead of those who are.

 

[PCL_128]

fdj2
thanks for the input, I am trying to educate myself on the debate.
Does anyone know what in particular the east says was violated in the integration protocol?

The "no windfall" clause is what the East is arguing was violated. Basically, ALPA merger policy requires that a variety of factors be considered in determining a merged list, but neither side is allowed to receive a "windfall." The East argues that the pilots on the West received such a windfall, therefore the arbitrator didn't comply with ALPA merger policy.

 

[AVI8V1]

that would be it.

I know a usair guy hired in 1986 or so who is JUNIOR to an 04 AWA guy. Says the kid wasn't even born when he was flying at Braniff.

Single alpa seniority list anyone?

 

[abefly]

that would be it.

I know a usair guy hired in 1986 or so who is JUNIOR to an 04 AWA guy. Says the kid wasn't even born when he was flying at Braniff.

Single alpa seniority list anyone?

What does age have to do with alpa merger policy? NOTHING If a 1986 hire date at US AIR placed you 30 from the bottom on the airbus and a 2005 hire date at AMERICA WEST placed you 30 from the bottom on the airbus then you should be relatviely at the same seniority!!!

 

[m80drvr]

that would be it.

I know a usair guy hired in 1986 or so who is JUNIOR to an 04 AWA guy. Says the kid wasn't even born when he was flying at Braniff.

Single alpa seniority list anyone?

So that guy thinks that it would not be a windfall for him to bid from bottom first officer to line holding captain on the next open bid? The windfall arguement can and will go both ways. DOH even with fences is a windfall for the east. Relative seniority, which the award is, is the only fair way. I would be willing to bet that their would not be one arbitrator who would change the award if it were overturned by ALPO. They would not go against the will of the head arbitrator.

The east guys should read the whole ruling, even their chosen neutral said Nicelau did a good, thoughtful job. His only dissention was about a few hundred furloughed guys that were recalled after the merger was announced. I assume Nicelau plcaed them at the bottom because they would have not been recalled if the merger never happened. At least not that soon.

ALPA need to represent all 60000 members and just present the list. Remenber, defending this list and the east law suit is costing ALL ALPO members money. It is your dues that ALPA is wasting.

 

[AVI8V1]

that guy was a line holding captain on the 747 when this kid wasn't even riding a tricycle. I think there is something to be said about realistic career expectations. And I don't buy the argument that east would have closed the doors and these guys would have no job w/o the merger. LCC had 90 days cash and AWA had 30 days cash when they collided.

 

[Fast43]

that would be it.

I know a usair guy hired in 1986 or so who is JUNIOR to an 04 AWA guy. Says the kid wasn't even born when he was flying at Braniff.

Single alpa seniority list anyone?

Braniff Huh?? Ask him just how much time in service he got to bring with him when he got hired at USair. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say NONE.

Essentially this company was created in May of 2005. Participants include AWA and AAA, for Marketing reasons the AAA name was kept. Other than that it is a new company that does not resemble either of the old companies. The Arbitrator took our respective bidding lists and combined them, with credit given only for what seat you were in (capt-f/o) If you were 30 from the bottom at either company you ended up 30 from the bottom of the new company. If you were on furlough before the merger announcement, then when you got recalled you went to the bottom. Just as it would have been before the merger. However even the casual observer would agree that absent the merger, recalls would not have been likely.

As far as a windfall due to attrition. The Abitrator stated that AAA benifited from this merger much more than their west counterparts. With no merger, no AAA, and no attrition for them to "enjoy". Hence the attrition and recalls they have had for 2+ years is happening BECAUSE of the merger. Therefore their claim of us getting something they would have had for themselves is a VERY hollow claim.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

No, no, no.... They all kept their seniority when the other airline they came from folded up. Didn't you hear?

 

[Soulfly]

Again, some people are confusing age with seniority.
One has nothing to do with the other. Unless you are in new hire ground school.

It's ok, I am sure a 55 year old FO will have no trouble finding a 90K year a job when this place goes tango unifrom.