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When is US Air West going to sue ALPA?

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One other point. About 50% of the EAST retirements in June were FO's. So there are really not as many captian positions due to attrition as some on the outside would think. On the other hand almost all retirements on the WEST are captains. So upgrades based on attrition are much higher on the west side.
Sorry for using logic here. I know that doesn't go over so well here.
 
A fence will probably not be necessary, since there will never be a joint CBA.

What rational person would vote yes (joint CBA) to something that will cost them the left seat.

You can aruge that a joint CBA will have more pay and better QOL. However, those positives are simply trumped by loss of the left seat. PERIOD.
 
Fine then fence all existing aircraft at both sides to their respective pilot groups until the retirement boon at airways is over. AWA keeps their career expectations and so does the AAA guys. Fill all new aircraft with the percentages that existed prior to the merger. AWA gets what their list would have provided, as does Airways.

If the regionals can keep up with the ratios of seats required for the J4J program, airways should be able to figure it out.

As it stands now, AWA will be the only ones who benefit from USAirs 70% retirement rate over the next 10 years.

Great Idea. Build a HUGE fence. Then all the new aircraft go to the west side cause they had planes on order and were hiring. The east, by your rational, will then park all their 73's and furlough the pilots in seniority order, because (again due to your rational) they were shrinking and parking airplanes. I think the west would go for that. By your on comments this should be ok with you. That was what was going on when the merger happened.

As far as Airways bettering their position....who are we kidding here, the young AWA guys are the one bettering their position at the expense of the 20 year airways guys. "Hello, I was hired in 2004 by AWA, now here it is 2009 and I am a widebody Captain with USAir" That statement was not made possible by what AWA brought to the table in equipment and retirements.

Great sound bite. But it is high on emotion and low on truth.

If you believe that a 04 west hire will be flying a widebody let alone 757 by 2009 you are nuts. Nice try though didn't pass the smell test.

You may want to check those retirement figures to see exactly how many of those seats are filled with FO's. I believe its about 50%. Almost all of the west guys are four stripers.

Don't get me wrong, I was once an east guy and had the time of my life there. That being said there is no excuse for their actions now. They may just put AAA out of business with the loss of about 50,000 jobs due to their childish behavior. They chose arbitration and got relative seniority. Yet that's not good enough so let's burn the company down. Great idea guys.

One more thing, if and when parker gets tired of all the east's crap and he sells it off, I would assume the buyer, say maybe UAL would not want the problem children of the east and all the headaches the bring They would have parker bankrupt the company, throw out LOA 93 and the fragmantation protections and sell the pieces off WITHOUT the pilots. Think this is out of the question? I'm betting its already on the table. Parker's merger plan will only work if the airlines merge PERIOD. The company will fragment or cease to exist if the east pilots do as they say they say they will do and force parker to never merge so the Nicleau list cannot be applied.

Again I was an east pilot I just am ashamed that they would act this way enlight of the fact that they agreed to the process. What makes it worse is their attempt to extort ALPA into forcing the west pilots to modify the list until it suits them. That is wrong and where does that leave ALPA when the next round of mergers takes place? This whole thing is disgusting
 
A fence will probably not be necessary, since there will never be a joint CBA.

What rational person would vote yes (joint CBA) to something that will cost them the left seat.

You can aruge that a joint CBA will have more pay and better QOL. However, those positives are simply trumped by loss of the left seat. PERIOD.

And the company will be sold off in little pieces without the pilots. That is a GREAT plan. What's better, to be 55 years old as an FO making 110k or so a year of "Captain" at an airline that is out of business. Try and find a guy who was 55 years old when Braniff or EAL went out of businss. Ask them what they would have chosen for the last few years of their career.

1. 100k+ salary and 10 to 15% a month going directly into their retirement as a senior FO or.


2. Unemployed at 55, a few years from retirement, kids in college, and a house payment. Though I do hear Mesa is hiring.

Funny, the east guys are upset at yanking gear for a guy with 10 years on the property. Just think how happy they will be yanking gear for a 1000hr mesa captain.

Food for thought
 
It's sad but true. The East guys are putting themselves in harms way because they feel the arbitration was a windfall for the west. If anything it was a windfall for the east. Our airline was the acquiring airline yet our senior guys went over 500 slots down the list. Instead of being thankful they're pushing toward an outcome that will hurt them more than us. It's like, "hey do what I say or I'm going to jump in front of this moving bus" Ah yeah right, go right ahead morons. I think all the rational intelligent guys like 80drvr moved on long ago.
 
One more thing, if and when parker gets tired of all the east's crap and he sells it off, I would assume the buyer, say maybe UAL would not want the problem children of the east and all the headaches the bring They would have parker bankrupt the company, throw out LOA 93 and the fragmantation protections and sell the pieces off WITHOUT the pilots.


First off...that ain't never gonna happen.

I would give the original AWA a year tops surviving as a National Carrier in todays environment.

So you as an AWA pilot should not be prodding Easties with the slinging of terms such as "childish" as both groups in the long run are tied together (legally or not) and are going to suffer the same fate...either the two groups will find common ground (extremely doubtful, unless some major breakthroughs occur) or both groups will experience the demise of an airline.

I know "STFD" has been the cattle call in the industry for the last 6 years of concessions, but every labor group in the industry acquiesced to management (to preserve the company... the "live to fight another day" mantra).

I wouldn't be so sure about the Easties acquiescing on this though. This seals their fate and a lot of guys who were Captains (all were) are gonna be jerkin gear until retirement now...set in stone if this is how it goes down. I don't see it happening personally.

You can take all the emotional conversation out of it...it is as simple as that.
 
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Hp....I think you're giving the East more credit with respect to their "proposed" litigation.

As I said before, I wouldn't expect this to ever go in front of a judge, IMO.
 
It's sad but true. The East guys are putting themselves in harms way because they feel the arbitration was a windfall for the west. If anything it was a windfall for the east.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

Now that is fargin funny! A windfall for the east? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Was that a typo?
 
Hp....I think you're giving the East more credit with respect to their "proposed" litigation.

As I said before, I wouldn't expect this to ever go in front of a judge, IMO.

I meant the, "burn the mother down" attitude. You're absolutely right, the lawsuit will get laughed out of court.
 
Give AWA a year as a national carrier. YGTBSM!

AWA's hubs were/are PHX and LAS. We successfully fought off SWA in those markets when USAir was selling off BWI and bailing out of the West.

Holy crap jt8d you're retarded.
 
Give AWA a year as a national carrier. YGTBSM!

AWA's hubs were/are PHX and LAS. We successfully fought off SWA in those markets when USAir was selling off BWI and bailing out of the West.

Holy crap jt8d you're retarded.

SWA has always called AWA "their best customer".

My point was HP and US need each other to succeed at this point.
 
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I wouldn't be so sure about the Easties acquiescing on this though. This seals their fate and a lot of guys who were Captains (all were) are gonna be jerkin gear until retirement now...set in stone if this is how it goes down. I don't see it happening personally.

You can take all the emotional conversation out of it...it is as simple as that.


The words of a Genius!!!!

It's too bad the merger happened then !!!

Having an F/O job with a chance to upgrade after retirement goes from 60 to 65. yeah that result is truly terrible, I mean just how could a guy live through that.

Liquidation and unemployment at 50-55 would have been much more tolerable both Emotionaly and Financialy, Like you said that would be simple !!!
 
A fence will probably not be necessary, since there will never be a joint CBA.

What rational person would vote yes (joint CBA) to something that will cost them the left seat.


All 60% already in the left seat.

Don't work there, but have talked to a lot friends who work there (US Air East), both left seat and right seat, and don't think there is any near 50% that will vote "Yes" on a joint CBA right now. So, just how do you think that you would ever get the 'votes' if you had a contract to vote on???

The 'numbers' just are definitely NOT there.

Just a thought??

DA
 
My point was HP and US need each other to succeed at this point.[/quote]

point is.... what is your point? Never sign an agreement? STMFD? Succeed? Do you know what that means? You want to Phudge AWA so you can succeed is what I see, since you could not "succeed" on your own.
 

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