When can AirTran dump ALPA?

[ron burgundy]

Our pilots are grossly uninformed as to b-funds..

And swapa has not tried to fix it.

Including a b-fund the total
compensation package raise has to be a 21% or we are
Screwd,,,,

and ....B-payscales

 

[ron burgundy]

Anyway..hope every one had a good day..be careful out there!

 

[scoreboardII]

Because it's easier faster and cheaper to try the DRC first. I predict if the AAI pilots don't get a huge win out of the DRC arbitrations that Federal court is the next step. This won't be over for years but that's not the important thing. The important thing is the ALPA lawyers and guys like PCL will continue to get paid.

Easier faster and cheaper to get a no at the DRC? I'll give you a yes at arby (which is sketchy at best), but then SWAPA has to agree go after SWA, which they won't. Which means a year later, you are right back where you should have gone to court in the first place against SWA: NOT SWAPA.

 

[PCL_128]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[PCL_128]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[dicko]

Yet more ALPA propaganda... Stop believing everything your union tells you, Ty.

They're blurple, not purple. Geez, get it right, willya'?

Bubba

Bubba,

We have two choices as to who represents us during the DR process. The dispute is centered around SWA and SWAPA collaboratively trying to introduce us to the taste of pillow. You don't seriously believe that SWAPA is the best choice to represent our interests ..... Do you ?

I have my issues with ALPA, but even I don't believe that SWAPA is a better choice in this instance.

 

[scoreboardII]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

So lets flip it, the arbitrator says no, disagrees with AT's position, do you guys go to court?

According to some here, yes, which is interesting because if you don't like the SLI, which you agreed to follow, and don't like the DRC position, which you agreed to follow, and then don't like an arbitrators ruling which you agreed to follow, WTFO? You really want to burn up any shred of hope this will end in a positive point for all?

 

[madjack]

But it will be SWAPA that must negotiate with SWA in your behalf if there is arbitrated award...

 

[scoreboardII]

Ding! Word.

 

[27 driver]

There is absolutely no way for this to end positively for all. That ship sailed a long time ago. We just want SWA to honor the agreements. They refuse to without this DRC. It's that simple.

 

[FlyinGuy]

27, Most SWA guys that I talk to agree with you. SWA should be forced to honor their agreement with AT. The problem is that an arbitrator allowed a DRC complaint to go forward that was not meant for this type of disagreement. Now SWAPA might be in a position where it has to go to SWA and try to get something for the AT pilots. I am not sure how that will play out, but it will be interesting.

 

[27 driver]

27, Most SWA guys that I talk to agree with you. SWA should be forced to honor their agreement with AT. The problem is that an arbitrator allowed a DRC complaint to go forward that was not meant for this type of disagreement. Now SWAPA might be in a position where it has to go to SWA and try to get something for the AT pilots. I am not sure how that will play out, but it will be interesting.

Agreed. It will be interesting.

 

[scoreboardII]

I absolutely hate living in interesting times.

 

[FlyinGuy]

It is much better than not living!!

 

[Ty Webb]

I haven't seen or heard AAI pilots suggesting that a claim be pursued outside of DRC. We are committed to following the agreed-upon process.

Obviously, we hope that a neutral party agrees that the 717 seats were a major part of the Agreement, but were subsequently removed without any real compensation offered . . . and that this should be addressed in a reasonable manner.

Hopefully, most folks can see why we believe this should be addressed.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Bubba,

We have two choices as to who represents us during the DR process. The dispute is centered around SWA and SWAPA collaboratively trying to introduce us to the taste of pillow. You don't seriously believe that SWAPA is the best choice to represent our interests ..... Do you ?

I have my issues with ALPA, but even I don't believe that SWAPA is a better choice in this instance.

I think you read waaaaay too much into things, Dicko. I was merely commenting on airplane colors. Where did you get that I was expressing an opinion on who should represent you? Personally, I try to stay out of it. But since you just asked my opinion, I agree that ALPA should represent you while you're still on the AirTran side of the partition. Two reasons: 1) since it was them who negotiated your contract in the first place; and 2) since ALPA has filed a DRC complaint under the agreement set, which seemingly puts SWAPA in an adversarial position with respect to the interests of APLA (AirTran) members.

See, I'm agreeing with you. I'm an agreeable guy. Just ask anyone. Now I want you to agree that the planes aren't really "purple," as some nameless ALPA members have alleged.

Bubba

 

[Ty Webb]

I agree with Bubba on the representation. . . and could even concede "Blurple", although some of the more faded ships look less blue and more like "Barney Purple".

 

[PCL_128]

So lets flip it, the arbitrator says no, disagrees with AT's position, do you guys go to court?

No. The DRA process is clear. If the arbitrator rules against us, then this claim is done. There is another claim, related to the secret MOUs, and that would still go forward, but no court battle.

 

[PCL_128]

But it will be SWAPA that must negotiate with SWA in your behalf if there is arbitrated award...

There's nothing to negotiate. The DRA says that SWAPA must go to SWA management with the arbitrator's award, take the position that the award is the position of SWAPA, and see whether SWA management accepts it or not. SWA management has 14 days to decide whether to accept it and implement it or not. If they choose not to implement it, then it goes to another arbitration where the arbitrator can force SWA management to abide by the arbitrator's decision. At no point does SWAPA "negotiate" on our behalf.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

No. The DRA process is clear. If the arbitrator rules against us, then this claim is done. There is another claim, related to the secret MOUs, and that would still go forward, but no court battle.

I call Bull******************** on this. ALPA will drag this into federal court, you and I both know it, and it is completely disingenuous of you to say otherwise. You must have failed failed politician 101 or you would be saying "Hell Yea we will fight this with every resource we have or until until Hell freezes over whichever comes last". Jesus man play to the crowd or say nothing. Good thing for you and the ALPA lawyers is you will get PAID every step along the way while this drags though the legal process. INEPT

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

You guys at AT are so lucky that GK gave you a second chance, after your wonderful ALPA said no to the first offer! I wonder if he still has the option of saying again we own you and take or leave it or move on,
MOVE ON AND STOP THE BS or keep paying ALPA'S dues and dinner expenses and drag it out and feel the wrath of GK and HK(he is still there)

,

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

You guys at AT are so lucky that GK gave you a second chance, after your wonderful ALPA said no to the first offer! I wonder if he still has the option of saying again we own you and take or leave it or move on,
MOVE ON AND STOP THE BS or keep paying ALPA'S dues and dinner expenses and drag it out and feel the wrath of GK and HK(he is still there)

,

Our "wonderful ALPA" was the majority of our pilots that contacted our MEC after the details of the first deal emerged.

He has the option to say that, and if he chooses to go that route, we'll go back to arbitration to force compliance. Very few are scared anymore of empty threats.

 

[PCL_128]

I call Bull******************** on this.

You can call whatever you want. It's a fact. There will be no court battle.

 

[Britpilot]

Our "wonderful ALPA" was the majority of our pilots that contacted our MEC after the details of the first deal emerged.

Majority? No. About 400? Yes.

 

[humveedriver]

You guys at AT are so lucky that GK gave you a second chance, after your wonderful ALPA said no to the first offer! I wonder if he still has the option of saying again we own you and take or leave it or move on,
MOVE ON AND STOP THE BS or keep paying ALPA'S dues and dinner expenses and drag it out and feel the wrath of GK and HK(he is still there)

,

Maybe there is a lesson there. The perception is ALPA had a controlling influence on AT pilots. Not true. When we (scumbag line pilots) pressed the ALPA lawyer in an open meeting, he was very non committal to what we should expect if we voted no. No fire and brimstone. I don't remember him speaking poorly of SWA.
The vocal minority said vote it down, while apparently the silent majority hoped it would pass without losing face.

717's go away and our pilots all go their reps and ask how this can be? A dispute is filed on behalf of all pilots. By our elected officials.

Now, being on the other side I read SWAPA membership asking why "ALPA" has filed a dispute but SWAPA officials haven't? Its a rhetorical question because everyone knows the answer is SWAPA doesn't like to make waves. You sound like you just want to move on ,fair enough. But many of your brothers and sisters are not happy with SWAPA's relationship with the company after the AT purchase (I'm sure it started before then).

 

[Dan Roman]

Maybe there is a lesson there. The perception is ALPA had a controlling influence on AT pilots. Not true. When we (scumbag line pilots) pressed the ALPA lawyer in an open meeting, he was very non committal to what we should expect if we voted no. No fire and brimstone. I don't remember him speaking poorly of SWA.
The vocal minority said vote it down, while apparently the silent majority hoped it would pass without losing face.

717's go away and our pilots all go their reps and ask how this can be? A dispute is filed on behalf of all pilots. By our elected officials.

Now, being on the other side I read SWAPA membership asking why "ALPA" has filed a dispute but SWAPA officials haven't? Its a rhetorical question because everyone knows the answer is SWAPA doesn't like to make waves. You sound like you just want to move on ,fair enough. But many of your brothers and sisters are not happy with SWAPA's relationship with the company after the AT purchase (I'm sure it started before then).

Very important point was made here that cuts across the whole "I hate ALPA because my career didn't turn out the way I thought it would" deal. A union, any union, accomplishes whatever it's membership does, regardless of the capital letters on it's stationary.
ALPA provides the most resources obviously (regardless of the size of the airline) but it's up to the membership what they do with it.
ALPA doesn't force anything on a pilot group they don't want.
ALPA doesn't pit one airline against another, they provide the same resources to all equally, and finally ALPA can't save anyone or any airline from negligent management or bad economic times.
You anti ALPA union folks apparently don't realize that whatever happened to you to make you unhappy with ALPA wouldn't have been prevented by an independent union. None of them are perfect, but they all provide a necessary service.

 

[PCL_128]

Majority? No. About 400? Yes.

It was a majority. A strong majority. The cowards just changed their minds after the fact when Gary started making more public his veiled threats. Hell, even some of the plaintiffs in the DFR lawsuit sent emails telling the MEC to vote down the first deal.

 

[RLAblows]

It was a majority. A strong majority. The cowards just changed their minds after the fact when Gary started making more public his veiled threats. Hell, even some of the plaintiffs in the DFR lawsuit sent emails telling the MEC to vote down the first deal.

I don't believe that for one second. The ones that you refer to as cowards only changed their stance because they learned the truth of what was going on. You guys were only telling half the story. You were selectively sending information out to the pilots. You never educated pilots on the risk of a no vote. Anyway, it wasn't what the majority wanted. Those clowns were expeditiously recalled and that should have proven what the "real" majority wanted.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't believe that for one second. The ones that you refer to as cowards only changed their stance because they learned the truth of what was going on. You guys were only telling half the story. You were selectively sending information out to the pilots. You never educated pilots on the risk of a no vote. Anyway, it wasn't what the majority wanted. Those clowns were expeditiously recalled and that should have proven what the "real" majority wanted.

"You guys?" I had no involvement. But your revisionist history is amusing.

 

[scoreboardII]

You can call whatever you want. It's a fact. There will be no court battle.

An ALPA rep saying there will be no court battle is like a bum not asking for money.