Whats up with civi pilots?

[hooker23]

I've been on this board for a few weeks now exploring jobs on the civilian side. I still haven't made a decision on whether to get out or not. Are most civilian pilots a bunch of whining pussies? Or is it just the pilots on the various forums? I expect to have to work at a job, not get paid to fly a few hours. I can't see a reason to get out when I would take a 30K pay cut and have to work more than I do now with a bunch of complainers and bitch artists. I can do that in the military for a lot more pay. Anyone who has defected please let me know your experiences. Do forums attract all the disgruntled folks?

 

[Fury220]

Don't forget "petty."

 

[semperfido]

you better stay where you are. besides, with that experience you listed you won't be qualified to do much more than fly an ems or traffic chopper. there is always wallmart.

 

[viperdriver]

Wow that is an interesting approach. May want to interview prep with Albie before you go to an interview.

ViperD

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Do forums attract all the disgruntled folks?

While I am not in a position to speak for the group, I do consider myself to be quite gruntled.

 

[Freight Dawg]

Hooker Dude, give it a few years and you too will be pondering the whole aviation career. If I don't fly I have to do the carpet dance or quit, I don't have to fly especially if I feel the aircraft maitenance has been neglected. You on the other don't have these options, you have the Ft. Leavenworth option. MX on the Civy side has been known to be pencil whippedm and or neglected, traing could suck, and not being off when you are supposed to be. So Hooker welcome to the Civy side, it could suck, or it can be great....Later

 

[CCDiscoB]

Are most civilian pilots a bunch of whining pussies?

Don't even go there. The last thing we need is another us vs. them thread.

 

[pkober]

I've sat in a tent in the sand box and listened to pilots complain. I've sat in the cockpit of an airliner and listened to pilots complain.

It's in our make up to complain.

CLAMBAKE

 

[pilotyip]

Your helo time is recognized as quality time by a number of airlines currently hiring, including most regionals. I have never had a military helo pilot fail initial training in the Falcon 20. Again not to get into the mil vs. civ thing, but I can not say the same for a number of higher time civilian fixed wing pilots. Go to APTAP it is a networking site for helo guys getting into civil aviation.

 

[agpilot34]

My question is this... If all you guys that bitch piss and moan about your aviation career are so damn fed up with it, why dont you quit! Like someone said, there's always Wal Mart! It would give the ears of rest of us who ARE satisified with our aviation career a break!

 

[avbug]

I expect to have to work at a job, not get paid to fly a few hours. I can't see a reason to get out when I would take a 30K pay cut and have to work more than I do now with a bunch of complainers and bitch artists.

Sounds to me like the whining has already begun.

Only, it's YOU.

Deal with it.

 

[GogglesPisano]

My question is this... If all you guys that bitch piss and moan about your aviation career are so dang fed up with it, why dont you quit! Like someone said, there's always Wal Mart! It would give the ears of rest of us who ARE satisified with our aviation career a break!

The guys who bitch and moan are usually the guys willing to go on strike, raise the bar for everyone else. The guys who are "satisfied" with what they have sometimes suffer from SJS and lower the bar.

 

[agpilot34]

Hmm, a strike that raises the bar for the rest of us poor lazy "satisfied" pilots... now THERE'S a concept! I get paid well enough for the flying I do, and the benefits are good as well, plus I actually get to FLY, instead of trolling the friendly skies pushing buttons and micro managing a computer system. Sorry, but strikes dont mean squat in my end of the sky. Besides all that, if I'm not mistaken, the crappy pay has been the norm for several years now in the regionals and such. I'm sure that the majority of the whiners and moaners KNEW that when they started, and went into it with open eyes. Besides, is that just all part of the "paying of dues" that some of you are so fond of talking about? I'm not trying to start some big arguement here, but face it... you knew the situation in the aviation world when you entered it. It's been up and down for many years, and it will continue to be up and down for many more years. That's the nature of the business.

 

[bearcat]

WOW! This thread shocks me. Who do you people work for that the training sucks. Your qualifications are going to land you much of a job. A regional job is less pay in the left seat of an RJ than a Lt and you put up with a bunch of bullshit. The us -vs them..whoaaaa..don't go there. Life as a regional pilot is much different. There is bitching everywhere in aviation. Most of us are type A and are somewhat of perfectionists....so we don't settle for second best. The people who control your quality of life at the regional level is sometimes less than desirable.

I have a new job with a good company. Good to their people and everyone (for the most part) has nothing but a GREAT attitude.

It is all what YOU make of it.

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

Are most civilian pilots a bunch of whining pussies?

You should get a job no problem with that attitude.

 

[Deuce130]

I've been on this board for a few weeks now exploring jobs on the civilian side. I still haven't made a decision on whether to get out or not. Are most civilian pilots a bunch of whining pussies? Or is it just the pilots on the various forums? I expect to have to work at a job, not get paid to fly a few hours. I can't see a reason to get out when I would take a 30K pay cut and have to work more than I do now with a bunch of complainers and bitch artists. I can do that in the military for a lot more pay. Anyone who has defected please let me know your experiences. Do forums attract all the disgruntled folks?

As a guy who just got out, I would recommend that you stay in. Not because I regret my decision, but it just sounds like you wouldn't fit in well on the civilian side of the house. If you expect to have to work at a job, stay in the army. Civilian flying is all about flying, that's what they get paid to do. They don't get paid to fly AND push papers, write evaluations, run the safety shop, train new guys, be the commander's exec, keep with ground training items, etc. If that's what you expect to do, then, again, stay in the army. Besides, with a lack of fixed wing experience, the majors won't touch you. Life in the army is probably preferable to life at an RJ.

 

[LJDRVR]

Wow, Hooker.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't post this just as flame bait.

You should answer your own question based on what you feel will be right for you, not based on the fact you read a lot of anonymous complaining posts. Your basic question is: Do I want to fly a lot, or do I want to serve my country?

I seperated 10 years ago, and have loved almost every minute of my civilian flying career. I have soloed students in Piper Cubs, Flown single-pilot IFR freight dog to include 1800 RVR approaches where I was above the fog at 500' agl. I have crossed the Atlantic in beat-up old Lears, shooting approaches to minimums in Keflavik and high winds in the Azores. 19 countries in my logbook and 54 different types of aircraft. I loved it all and the journey isn't over yet.

Many of my peers think this is a horrible industry and would never have started out in it had they known what it was like. They claim the romance and glamour our predeccesors enjoyed is all but history. Want to know something? They're right. Their jobs do suck. They get no respect from the flying public or their superiors. The magic of flight and the wonder of the continual fulfillment of a childhood dream is forever lost for them. Why is that? Simply attitude. 99% of life is how you react to your environment.

Do you really think you'll avoid these folks by staying in the military? Are you one of these people?

 

[Huggyu2]

Civilian flying is all about flying, that's what they get paid to do.

I know what you mean, but this comment reminded me of something. In many cases, civilian flying is all about "not flying". When military pilots talk, they all talk about how they try to figure out a way to get on the flying schedule more than they already do. When I talk to my airline buddies, they tell me all the ways they try to avoid having to fly. For them, "not flying" is their goal.

 

[Deuce130]

I know what you mean, but this comment reminded me of something. In many cases, civilian flying is all about "not flying". When military pilots talk, they all talk about how they try to figure out a way to get on the flying schedule more than they already do. When I talk to my airline buddies, they tell me all the ways they try to avoid having to fly. For them, "not flying" is their goal.

True. And I'll welcome myself to that club. I love to fly, but I love not working more. The only thing better than a day flying is a day off! But then, I felt that way (and still do) during my military job. A day flying beats a day at the desk, and a day at the beach or on the "hog" beats a day flying. Everytime.

 

[Fury220]

a day at the beach or on the "hog" beats a day flying. Everytime.

Maybe sometimes, but not every time. No way. You've never reached the end of a couple weeks of leave only to think "dang, I wish I were flying today..." ??? I sure have.


As far as riding the "hog," what you do in your own time is none of my business.

 

[Huggyu2]

Seeing as I'm spending my Christmas vacation putting in flooring through the entire downstairs of my house, you can bet your sweet you-know-what that I'll be coming off of leave on Friday so I can burn a little JP-8 and get an early Christmas present to me (from Uncle Sam and the taxpayers)!

 

[YGBSM]

I know what you mean, but this comment reminded me of something. In many cases, civilian flying is all about "not flying". When military pilots talk, they all talk about how they try to figure out a way to get on the flying schedule more than they already do. When I talk to my airline buddies, they tell me all the ways they try to avoid having to fly. For them, "not flying" is their goal.

Ditto.

Says a lot about the "quality" of the flying, don't it?

Oops, sorry, flying that CRJ, uh, "kicks ass" too.

Oops. sorry, airline guys. Didn't mean to, well, you know.

Sorry.

 

[Gorilla]

Ditto.

Says a lot about the "quality" of the flying, don't it?

Oops, sorry, flying that CRJ, uh, "kicks ass" too.

Oops. sorry, airline guys. Didn't mean to, well, you know.

Sorry.

Don't be sorry. Civilian flying is a joke compared to military flying. That is why there will always be an inseparable gulf between pure civilian background pilots and military background pilots. On the other hand, civilians don't have to write ground training programs, wear MOP gear, get anthrax shots, and watch their friends become smoking holes. You go civilian for either QOL, pay, or both, not because the flying is better. And in today's environment, while the QOL will very probably be better, the pay has certainly eroded, and the flying is boring. You pick a path, and take what comes, hopefully after MUCH thought and investigation.

I do agree with the general concensus - a certain amount of bi*ching is OK, but past an undefined point, gets really old.

 

[SUNDOWN]

I know what you mean, but this comment reminded me of something. In many cases, civilian flying is all about "not flying". When military pilots talk, they all talk about how they try to figure out a way to get on the flying schedule more than they already do. When I talk to my airline buddies, they tell me all the ways they try to avoid having to fly. For them, "not flying" is their goal.

I think this has to do with how much civillians actually fly. We do 800 hours a year where a MIL guy may not get that in 5 years. I know many think most of that is spent in cruise but the truth is outside of the Majors many of these regional and frieght guys are doing many legs a day in bad weather, single pilot, etc.

 

[SUNDOWN]

Don't be sorry. Civilian flying is a joke compared to military flying. That is why there will always be an inseparable gulf between pure civilian background pilots and military background pilots. On the other hand, civilians don't have to write ground training programs, wear MOP gear, get anthrax shots, and watch their friends become smoking holes. You go civilian for either QOL, pay, or both, not because the flying is better. And in today's environment, while the QOL will very probably be better, the pay has certainly eroded, and the flying is boring. You pick a path, and take what comes, hopefully after MUCH thought and investigation.

.

Yeah it's pretty cool how civillian guys never crash and die.... I guess we're lucky like that......Think before you type.

 

[Gorilla]

Yeah it's pretty cool how civillian guys never crash and die.... I guess we're lucky like that......Think before you type.

Uhhh, I'd say the frequency of the phenomenon is a bit different, and slightly skewed towards the tactical and helo pilots.

 

[agpilot34]

Don't be sorry. Civilian flying is a joke compared to military flying. That is why there will always be an inseparable gulf between pure civilian background pilots and military background pilots. On the other hand, civilians don't have to write ground training programs, wear MOP gear, get anthrax shots, and watch their friends become smoking holes. You go civilian for either QOL, pay, or both, not because the flying is better. And in today's environment, while the QOL will very probably be better, the pay has certainly eroded, and the flying is boring. You pick a path, and take what comes, hopefully after MUCH thought and investigation.

I do agree with the general concensus - a certain amount of bi*ching is OK, but past an undefined point, gets really old.

IF you think that all civilian flying is a "joke", maybe you need to come fly with me for a few days... that is, if you think you can handle it. You might want to bring your little blue puke bags, though. We've had SEVERAL military pilots apply with us over the past couple of years that, after going out and flying a few tight gathering systems on the line with a check pilot for a couple of days, admitted they couldnt do it. Dont mean to bust your chops, but dont lump ALL of us civi pilots together, as not ALL of us troll around all day in a bus with wings. There are still some of us that actually fly for a living, and are d@mn proud of it. By the way, I've watched a couple of friends become smoking holes when I was flying ag. Turbine Air Tractors and high tension powerlines dont mix too well.

Got to admit though, I'd LOVE to try what you guys do just ONCE!!

 

[Gorilla]

High tension powerlines don't mix well with a 4-ship escorting a strike package at 600 knots either. I'll grant you ag is a different world. I shouldn't have painted with so broad a brush.

I'll rephrase it - Civilian flying for a scheduled air carrier is a joke.

Added: Sorry guys I woke up today with a numbed brain at the thought of once again packing my crap to do a trip I've done hundreds of times - "Is the FMC programmed!!?? Uh Oh, we'd better check all the waypoints! Oh No, it's a BLEEDS OFF TAKEOFF today!!! Run the BLEEDS OFF CHECKLIST 4 times please, we need to GET IT RIGHT!"

In my dreams, I'm flying upside down again, packing heat and pulling G's. I miss it, that's all.

 

[agpilot34]

Now THAT I can agree with!

 

[SUNDOWN]

Uhhh, I'd say the frequency of the phenomenon is a bit different, and slightly skewed towards the tactical and helo pilots.

I may not know the percentage of MIL guys crashing, but I did the single pilot freight thing for quite a while and there were several fatal crashes. Unfourtuntely these do not make the papers. My point is most of us (excluding some regionals) did not start our careers in the airlines. I'll never understand this you guys's aint sh!* attitude. Any way Merry Christmas.