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Whats so great about working at a major?

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To put it blatenly, we need less of you in this profession. It's obvious you're not in aviation for the love of flying. Maybe you should've taken that 20 secured yourself an intro to law school.

CM

Actually, to put it bluntly, we need less of YOU in this profession. The "I can't believe they pay me to fly a jet" crowd is a large reason our collective bargaining is in the crapper. Combine that with the RLA and the outdated seniority system, and we (labor) don't stand a chance.

I enjoy some of the benefits of the job as much as the next guy, but it's just a JOB.
 
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Actually, to put it bluntly, we need less of YOU in this profession. The "I can't believe they pay me to fly a jet" crowd is a large reason our collective bargaining is in the crapper. Combine that with the RLA and the outdated seniority system, and we (labor) don't stand a chance.

I enjoy some of the benefits of the job as much as the next guy, but it's just a JOB.


I'm sure you do, but did the Air Force pay you 300K a year to fly the C17 doing manuevers like what is in your picture?
 
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I'm sure you do, but did the Air Force pay you 300K a year to fly the C17 doing manuevers like what is in your picture?

Once they start calling airlines "the service" and having your work there contribute to the safety and security of the nation, then that's a fair comparison.

Until then, it's completely apples and oranges. Nobody goes into the military for the great QOL or pay.
 
Actually, to put it bluntly, we need less of YOU in this profession. The "I can't believe they pay me to fly a jet" crowd is a large reason our collective bargaining is in the crapper. Combine that with the RLA and the outdated seniority system, and we (labor) don't stand a chance.

I enjoy some of the benefits of the job as much as the next guy, but it's just a JOB.

Actually, I'm not a "I can't believe they pay me to fly a jet" person. I left flying an 145 to fly a lear and king air. I couldn't care what I fly, but I take pride in it and I still fight for pay, qol, and schedule.

CM
 
What's your point? 2nd career or not- what are you arguing for? Status quo? More pay cuts?

Lesson #1 for your perspective-- airline pilot's don't get a true "market" wage. He's beating his chest b/c of what you already pointed out-- Nobody OUTSIDE of flying CARES or UNDERSTANDS about the true nature of the issues facing an airline pilot. If we negotiate $30k or $300k they don't give a damn- They worry about their lives... What everyone on this board is concerned about are PILOTS who think they aren't worth what we get paid-even w/ 55% paycuts. That pisses me off b/c we collectively bargain- your lack of pride and value for what you do brings down MY wages. It also is disrespectful to your career and the responsibility you have as an aviator. I'm not saving the world as you point out=-= but there are more than a few times every year where if I'm not VERY good at what i do-- a lot of people die, a lot of $capital is lost, and a lot of economic good will is lost as well. That's not dramatic- just reality-and if you don't get that THAT responsibility is valuable- you NEED PERSPECTIVE. I get tired of pilots who aren't as good as me-don't respect aviation as much as me, and thus-don't work as hard as me- tell me that i'm not worth what i know i am. Not everyone can do what I do. That has been proven to me many times over. If you think everyone CAN- maybe you're not doing this job the right way.

My point wouldn't contradict yours- Airlines do not govern my HAPPINESS- and I don't bitch-- i love my job every day-- THEN get involved and vote the right way.

Excellent Post!!!! Amen brother! With the current "pilot shortage" we are all in an excellent position to demand what we are worth! And we are worth a whole lot more than we are being paid now. With as much responsibility as we have much is expected.
 
Scrapdog - you crap all over someone else's choice then preemptively tell them not to throw any back?

New hire pay at current "majors:"

CAL $31*
SkyBus $31.58
US Air $41
AirTran $43
DAL $49
FedEx: $56

*Only one of these makes you purchase insurance outside of your employment during your first year.

No one "crapped" on CAL like you did other folks choices. If you really want a typical Flightinfo degradation of a thread to a monkey throwing crap fight, we can start a SkyBus versus CAL thread :)
 
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Scrapdog-
1. Thanks for your service.

2. Did you ever fly an RJ? Methinks not. Of course there's a bunch of airplanes that are more fun to fly (a 1975 BE-58 being one of them, or an old Stearman or Cub), but in the world of future beer cans flying ma and pa from A to B, the little jets actually are "fun". I could do lots of things safely and legally in an E145 that wouldn't work in bigger jets.

3. I have no doubt that an F- anything is 200 times more exciting than what we do for a living now. Again I am grateful for your service; on the other hand you should be grateful for the opportunity to go fly something fun on weekends. Those of us without that opportunity choose to find our "fun" in flying our jets precisely, smoothly, turning off the toys and eye-balling it in, etc. It's not necessary to constantly remind us that it's not Mach 2 with our hair on fire; we already know that.

4. I don't know what Delta you've been riding on, but I find them to be neck and neck with CO for aircraft cleanliness, quality of product, and the like. They also chose to put some padding in their coach seats, unlike any CO seven-three I've ever ridden on. YMMV.

To the OP: I'm at JB after leaving top 25 percent seniority at RAH. JB is probably best classified as a near-major, and I'm commuting to reserve on the "express" airplane (in-house joke for the 190). It's still loads better than the regional was for me, mostly for the reasons already listed (jetways, live airplanes when I start work, working for the brand instead of contractor, etc.). That's with acknowledging that the overall compensation here still has room for quite a bit of improvement. Good luck in your decision.
 
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Part of how the collective bargaining process has been skewed is that we are lumped in with all the other employees--we have allowed that.

"Everyone gets part of one big pie." Bull. To have to fight it out with rampers, agents and facility hygiene specialists for a piece of the pie is crap.

Years ago, we dropped the ball and failed to establish a national contract that all members of the union would work under (THAT would eliminate the issue of non-union carriers) or else. You set a requirement for insurance and retirement. You get your card when you get hired by an airline and mergers are DOH with fences.

You don't like it, stay in the military or go corporate.
TC

P.S.--We all know the only reason Mudeagle and Scrapdog went in the AF was 'cause chicks dig guys in 'bags'... ;)
 
Scrapdog.... you must be drinking allot these days...you keep pissing in everyones sandbox.... me thinks you'd never make.... 0-6..... or 0-5!
 
Since everyone always throws CAL under the bus I will slightly defend them. 6 year pay wb, which is 5 years on the property, $117/hr, which will put you well over $100,000 with actual flying and if you never go to work on reserve you will still make 100k. Not quite the 10-12 years to make the infamous 100k level. In reality it will only take you 2-3 years on the property to make $100k.
 
I can only speak for myself. 7 year captain at a regional and I will make more $$$ this year as first year F/O at SWA. Second year...over 100K easily. That's just the money...the QOL is awesome...so I would leave a regional in a heartbeat...Beggars can't be choosers and I definately think long-term there is a huge difference between regional and major.
 
Self-righteous anyone? You fly a plane. Circumstances have dictated what payscales 121 pilots are making currently for being responsible for flying people from point A to point B. But you didn't discover the cure for cancer brother, you fly planes. You're not the only one in this country sacrificing, nor the only one working, or at the very least with the perception of having worked, twice as hard to get to the same place.

90K with a semblance of QOL is nothing to scoff at. Now, is it true that today's economy forces the middle class to be two-income households by default and therefore a single person earning 90K isn't what it used to be? Absolutely. But everybody has a bloated perception of the value of one's work when compared to other careers.

I used to see this coming out of college with an engineering degree. People b%tching and whining about how they should start at X salary and they deserve more, ad naseaum. Guess what, nobody cares you fly a plane, like nobody cared I had additional education when I decided to pursue flying professionally. Just like nobody cares you feel your chosen profession should be compensated more compared to "90% of the country".

The key to keeping perspective is to make comparisons in terms of opportunity cost, rather than let your entitlement complex get out of control. You wanna make 200K+ in a "timely" fashion and feel flying a plane, current QOL and other externalities considered, is not getting you there? Hedge your bets and make the appropriate career changes and see what happens. But pounding your chest and screaming "I deserve more, I am worth more than 90% of earners because I have sacrificed soooo much" does nothing to reinforce your argument that pilots should be compensated more (which for the level of responsibility at the regional level I believe they should).

Just some perspective is all.


How long have you been in this business sir?

My previous experience in this business (other than flight instructing) could have NOTHING do do with my opinion of self worth, could it?

My previous experience seeing pay rates and working conditions be WHAT THEY WERE couldn't have anything to do with my opinion of what pay rates should be.

My opinion that what we do is FAR from the normal profession (notice I didn't say job), therefore wht shouldit command simply average pay? In many situations, the profession is paying far less than the median salary. FAR LESS.

My opinion couldn't have been formed by witnessing how pilots react to the string pulling of a management team that consistently does what is right for them while fleecing the industry, could it?

And my opinion could HARDLY be influenced by reading the repeated yarns of younglings like yourself that would just as soon PAY THEM to fly a plane then make a decent wage in exchange for the flawless perfromance of your craft: Flying Airplanes.

It's sickening really.

Self rightous? Maybe. Proud? You had better believe it. Of the opinion that we could ALL do a crapload better than what we are now? Hell YEZZ.

Please get a few years under your belt and attach a few responsibilites to your bottom line before you judge my words.

By 30 something, every man knows that there are only so many hours in the day, so many years left in their career. I want to make each and every one count where it matters; the pocketbook. I'll bequeath all of the snazzy sunsets and cloud surfing moments to starving artists like yourself.
 
Actually, I'm not a "I can't believe they pay me to fly a jet" person. I left flying an 145 to fly a lear and king air. I couldn't care what I fly, but I take pride in it and I still fight for pay, qol, and schedule.

CM


Ahhh, another one who get's it. :beer:
 

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